whitemunara

the original Vedas were not man’s fabrication

2008-10-19T19:26:00.000-07:00

• the original Vedas were not man’s fabrication
• a human fabrication lacks the power to establish a lasting order-Vedas
• we do not find any mention of stone worship in the Vedas
• Vedic teaching is full of the mention of the worship of fire` air` water` the moon` the sun` and so on
• What justification can there be for the Holy Qur’an to be made the target of such brutal attacks?

Promised Messiah 1835-1908 says:

However, in accordance with what we are taught by God, we believe that the original Vedas were not man’s fabrication. A human fabrication lacks the power to establish a lasting order.

Although we do not find any mention of stone worship in the Vedas, without a doubt, Vedic teaching is full of the mention of the worship of fire, air, water, the moon, the sun, and so on. There is no verse which prohibits the worship of these objects. Who is to say that the older sects of Hindus are false and only the new sect of Aryas is the true one? People who, by referring to the Vedas, worship these objects, are armed with the powerful argument that there is clear mention of such worship and nowhere is there any prohibition.

To say that these are the names of God, is a claim which has not as yet been clearly settled. Had it been settled, what reason could there have been for the scholarly pundits in Banares and other cities to have rejected the beliefs of the Aryas? Despite efforts over the past thirty to thirty-five years, very few Hindus have accepted the Arya faith and in comparison with the Sanatan faith and other Hindu sects, the followers of the Arya faith number so few that they are insignificant, nor do they have any influence on the remaining Hindu sects. Similarly, the teachings of nyog, which is attributed to the Vedas, is abhorrent to human dignity and the human sense of honour. As I have already stated, we cannot accept that it is a genuine Vedic teaching. In fact, our well-meaning intentions make us strongly inclined to believe that such teachings must have been introduced later from sensual motives.

Since thousands of years have passed since the original compilation of Vedas it is possible that in different times some scribes added to or subtracted from it. For us it is proof enough that the Arya faith has had millions upon millions of followers for thousands of years who have held it to be the word of God. It is not possible that the work of an imposter could enjoy such honour.

So when we, despite all these obstacles, purely out of fear of God, accept the Vedas to be divine revelation in its origin and assume all the false teachings to be the work of scribes, what justification can there be for the Holy Qur’an to be made the target of such brutal attacks? It is full of injunctions from cover to cover speaking only of the worship of one God. Nowhere does it require man to worship the sun, the moon etc. In fact there are clear statements to the contrary.

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Message-of-Peace.pdf

Paarsurrey says:

Everybody is welcome to comment on the above passage peacefully and with rational arguments from one’s own revealed book; even those who differ with me are also welcome here.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Second Coming or advent of the Promised Messiah 1835-1908 had stregthened all the revealed religons of the world; He is Divine-Guided

2008-10-18T20:12:00.000-07:00

• No need to have a blind faith when you can add beauty to your faith with eyes of research

• An invitation for research for truth: “Bring forth your arguments if you are truthful”

• Please build your faith on solid, reasonable,logical and research based arguments; blind faith is no faith

• nobody among Christians, Hindus and Jews is endowed from GodAllahYHWH, the power to exceed Promised Messiah 1835-1908 in truthful arguments, reasons, logic and rationality

Paarsurrey says:

I have been posting here for quite sometimes now. I have never made personal comments against anybody. I respect everybody and everybody’s religion. I sincerely believe and I am convinced with solid reasons that the Divine Guide or Second Coming of Christ has taken place in the metaphoric advent of Promised Messiah 1835-1908.

Promised Messiah 1835-1908 writes with the help of Holy Spirit/Angels and GodAllahYHWH has endowed him with wisdom and have spoken with him many a times. This wisdom is reflected in his writings, of which some you must have tasted through my posts.

Every Christian, Hindu and Jew is welcome to comment writings of the Promised Messiah 1835-1908 peacefully; and such comments will be displayed on my blog; and be a source of comparative study of religions by the searching souls for truth.

I am sure that nobody among Christians, Hindus and Jews is endowed from GodAllahYHWH, the power to exceed Promised Messiah 1835-1908 in truthful arguments, reasons, logic and rationality.

If they try; they will be ashamed of their blind faiths haded over to them by their peers through ages. They would realize that though their faiths were truthful in their origin – when revealed by God; yet their truth content has been diluted with time.

There is no harm if one tries to.

The comments will be free for everybody to see and the common conscience of humanity will be free to see through them and decide after due research as to where the truth lies. Everybody will be free to accept the truth wherever and wherefrom it comes; no compulsion whatsoever.

While commenting or presenting your view-point, please offer both your claim and jist of your arguments from your Revealed Book so that one knows that your book supports you .

Peaceful comments are welcome here; even of those who differ with me.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

http://rpc.technorati.com/rpc/ping

Christ’s Disciples never gave any first hand testimony for Jesus’ cursed death on Cross; Paul’s faith is proven in vain

2008-09-30T00:43:00.000-07:00

• Sentimental obsessions cannot prove Jesus’ Resurrection; it only reflects that a drowning Christianity is catching at straws

• Christians have neither historic testimony of Jesus’ death on Cross nor for his resurrection from the dead

• Christ’s Disciples never gave any first hand testimony for Jesus’ cursed death on Cross; Paul’s faith is proven in vain

Paarsurrey says:

I give hereunder verbatim what has been mentioned about Jesus’ death on Cross and his resurrection from the dead without adding any comments from me. It needs no comments as it is only a sentimental reflection of our Christians friends; and which has nothing to do with anything historic about Jesus or secular historic evidence about his resurrection. This only proves that they are short of any logical arguments that could satisfy a present day man, in my opinion. At the most it is an attempt to put dust in the eyes of a person in search of truth with mere a drama. I leave it to the readers.

AllAboutJesusChrist.org says:
http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/Jesus-Resurrection.htm Jesus Christ Jesus’ Resurrection

Quote : “Jesus’ Resurrection - The Disciples’ Testimony

The men who believed in Jesus’ Resurrection from the dead, known today as Christ’s Disciples, certainly had their testimony, as well as their convictions, tested by those who disbelieved. With the exception of John, every one of these men were put to death. These deaths were excruciating and merciless. More so were their lives, as these men were persecuted by the secular world and suffered great hardship for the spreading of their beloved Gospel, which they proclaimed. Paul gives account in his second letter to the Corinthians “Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.” (II Corinthians 11:24-27). Paul was later beheaded after suffering in a Roman dungeon for many years. His death was far less brutal then those of his brethren as he was a Roman citizen and often they were not. These men believed the Lord allowed them to suffer greatly, as there is no better evidence of their sincerity and the truth of their message than their endurance and perseverance without any hope of an earthly reward. Every single one of them could have escaped such torture and humiliation by simply denouncing the Resurrection of Christ. This was the goal of their tormentors. However, not one ceded to their persecutors, and this is dramatic evidence in rebuttal of any conspiracy theory.
Read Jesus’ Resurrection Page 2 Now! ” Unquote

Thanks

I love Jesus, Mary and Muhammad

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

http://rpc.technorati.com/rpc/ping

What we are taught by God; we Ahmadi Muslims believe that the original Vedas were not man’s fabrication

2008-09-28T19:29:00.000-07:00

• We believe the Vedas to be divine in origin and we consider their saints to be venerable and holy

• Vedic teaching has not succeeded, nor could it ever succeed, in turning any section of its followers into true worshippers of God

• What we are taught by God; we Ahmadi Muslims believe that the original Vedas were not man’s fabrication

• Vedas are so vague that they permit all sects to deduce from them whatsoever they wish

• without a doubt, Vedic teaching is full of the mention of the worship of fire, air, water, the moon, the sun, and so on

Promised Messiah 1835-1908 says:

As for us (the Muslims), we never use indecent language with regard to the Prophets of other peoples. In fact, we believe that for all the Prophets who have come to different peoples of the world and have been accepted by millions of people in all parts of the world, and love for them and their greatness has been firmly established in any one part of the world, and further that this state of devotion and love for them has endured the test of time, is evidence enough of their truthfulness.

Had they not been from God, they could not have been accepted on such a wide scale by millions upon millions of hearts. God does not bestow such honour upon those whom He favours not. If an imposter aspires to occupy their position, he is soon brought to ruin.

By virtue of the same logic, we believe the Vedas to be divine in origin and we consider their saints to be venerable and holy. We do so despite our observation that Vedic teaching has not succeeded, nor could it ever succeed, in turning any section of its followers into true worshippers of God. The people in this country who worship idols, fire, the sun, the Ganges, or thousands of deities, or who are adherents of Jainism or the Shakat faith, all claim their religion to originate from the Vedas. The Vedas are so vague that they permit all sects to deduce from them whatsoever they wish.

However, in accordance with what we are taught by God, we believe that the original Vedas were not man’s fabrication. A human fabrication lacks the power to establish a lasting order.

Although we do not find any mention of stone worship in the Vedas, without a doubt, Vedic teaching is full of the mention of the worship of fire, air, water, the moon, the sun, and so on. There is no verse which prohibits the worship of these objects. Who is to say that the older sects of Hindus are false and only the new sect of Aryas is the true one? People who, by referring to the Vedas, worship these objects, are armed with the powerful argument that there is clear mention of such worship and nowhere is there any prohibition.

To say that these are the names of God, is a claim which has not as yet been clearly settled. Had it been settled, what reason could there have been for the scholarly pundits in Banares and other cities to have rejected the beliefs of the Aryas?

Despite efforts over the past thirty to thirty-five years, very few Hindus have accepted the Arya faith and in comparison with the Sanatan faith and other Hindu sects, the followers of the Arya faith number so few that they are insignificant, nor do they have any influence on the remaining Hindu sects.

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Message-of-Peace.pdf
pages 23-24

Paarsurrey says:

I have been posting in these blogs for quite sometimes now. I have never made personal comments against anybody. I respect everybody and everybody’s religion. I sincerely believe and I am convinced with solid reasons that the Divine Guide or Second Coming of Christ has taken place in the metaphoric advent of Promised Messiah 1835-1908.

Promised Messiah 1835-1908 writes with the help of Holy Spirit/Angels and GodAllahYHWH has endowed him with wisdom and have spoken with him many a times. This wisdom is reflected in his writings, of which some you must have tasted through my posts.

Every Christian, Hindu and Jew is welcome to comment on writings of the Promised Messiah 1835-1908 peacefully; and such comments will be displayed on my blog; and be a source of comparative study of religions by the searching souls for truth.

I am sure that nobody among Christians, Hindus and Jews is endowed from GodAllahYHWH, the power to exceed Promised Messiah 1835-1908 in truthful arguments, reasons, logic and rationality.

If they try; they will be ashamed of their blind faiths haded over to them by their peers through ages. They would realize that though their faiths were truthful in their origin – when revealed by God; yet their truth content has been diluted with time.

There is no harm if one tries to.

The comments will be free for everybody to see and the common conscience of humanity will be free to see through them and decide after due research as to where the truth lies. Everybody will be free to accept the truth wherever and wherefrom it comes; no compulsion whatsoever.

Peaceful comments are welcome here; even of those who differ with me.

I love Moses, Krishna, Jesus, Maryam and Muhammad.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

http://rpc.technorati.com/rpc/ping

Is there in the entire realm of physical laws created by God, a single piece of evidence in favour such biased attitudes?

2008-09-27T18:31:00.000-07:00

• To insult and abuse the Prophets and Messengers of different countries and peoples is a deadly poison that only disturbs peace of the world

• On one hand God is conceived to be the Lord of the whole universe while on the other, He is claimed to have withdrawn His hand of providence from a large part of the world

• Is there in the entire realm of physical laws created by God, a single piece of evidence in favour such biased attitudes?

• Physical Laws and Spiritual Law cannot be paradoxical, if created by the same God

• To respect and honour Prophets and Messengers of different countries and peoples is a good tool to establish peace in the world; it must be tried

Promised Messiah 1835-1908 says:

Dear friends! I appeal to you, in the name of God, to consider whether such (narrow) views can really be entertained by human nature. Or if any conscience could find room for them within its bounds! I fail to understand what kind of logic it is that on the one hand God is conceived to be the Lord of the whole universe and, on the other, He is claimed to have withdrawn His hand of providence from a large part of the world, and that His gaze remains fixed on a particular people and one section of a particular country. O those who possess wisdom!

Please decide with justice if, in the entire realm of physical laws created by God, there is a single piece of evidence in favour of this. Why then should His spiritual laws be based on such biased attitudes?

If the faculty of reasoning is employed, the good or evil of anything becomes manifest from the fruit it bears. Needless for me to discuss the consequences of abusing and reviling the holy Prophets of God, who have been seen and accepted by hundreds and millions of people; there is hardly a people who have not themselves witnessed the outcome of the bitter fruit of such practices.

O Dear Ones! Age-old experience and repeated trials have established, without question, that to insult and abuse the Prophets and Messengers of different countries and peoples is such a deadly poison which not only destroys the body but also kills the soul, thereby ruining the worldly prospects as well as the spiritual. A country whose inhabitants are always after finding faults in the leaders of others, and constantly assassinate their characters, can never rest in peace themselves.

Such people can never achieve true unity who, individually or mutually, refer to each other’s Prophets or saints or divines with malice or foul language. Who would not be outraged at the insults hurled at their Prophet or leader? In particular, Muslims are such people who, although they do not believe their Prophet to be God or the son of God, do regard him to be the most revered of all the holy men born of a human mother. To make peace with a sincere Muslim is not possible unless during discussion, their Holy Prophet is mentioned with respect and refined language.

As for us (The Muslims), we never use indecent language with regard to the Prophets of other peoples. In fact, we believe that for all the Prophets who have come to different peoples of the world and have been accepted by millions of people in all parts of the world, and love for them and their greatness has been firmly established in any one part of the world, and further that this state of devotion and love for them has endured the test of time, is evidence enough of their truthfulness.

Had they not been from God, they could not have been accepted on such a wide scale by millions upon millions of hearts. God does not bestow such honour upon those whom He favours not. If an imposter aspires to occupy their position, he is soon brought to ruin.

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Message-of-Peace.pdf
pages21-23

paarsurrey says:

I have been posting in these blogs for quite sometimes now. I have never made personal comments against anybody. I respect everybody and everybody’s religion. I sincerely believe and I am convinced with solid reasons that the Divine Guide or Second Coming of Christ has taken place in the metaphoric advent of Promised Messiah 1835-1908.

Promised Messiah 1835-1908 writes with the help of Holy Spirit/Angels and GodAllahYHWH has endowed him with wisdom and have spoken with him many a times. This wisdom is reflected in his writings, of which some you must have tasted through my posts.

Every Christian, Hindu and Jew is welcome to comment on writings of the Promised Messiah 1835-1908 peacefully; and such comments will be displayed on my blog; and be a source of comparative study of religions by the searching souls for truth.

I am sure that nobody among Christians, Hindus and Jews is endowed from GodAllahYHWH, the power to exceed Promised Messiah 1835-1908 in truthful arguments, reasons, logic and rationality.

If they try; they will be ashamed of their blind faiths haded over to them by their peers through ages. They would realize that though their faiths were truthful in their origin – when revealed by God; yet their truth content has been diluted with time.

There is no harm if one tries to.

The comments will be free for everybody to see and the common conscience of humanity will be free to see through them and decide after due research as to where the truth lies. Everybody will be free to accept the truth wherever and wherefrom it comes; no compulsion whatsoever.

Peaceful comments are welcome here; even of those who differ with me.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

http://rpc.technorati.com/rpc/ping

When time for the breaking of the Cross or explaining the error of the creed of the Cross was to be made plain; that is Second Coming of Jesus

2008-09-26T18:47:00.000-07:00

• Why should not the researchers look for blessed footprints of Jesus on the rocky soil of Nepal, Tibet, and Kashmir?

• Worship of the Cross and of the mythical sacrifice of a human being had alienated the hearts of many millions of people from the true God

• It was indeed the work of God to break the creed of the Cross

• When time for the breaking of the Cross or explaining the error of the creed of the Cross was to be made plain; that is Second Coming of Jesus

• Explaining away the mythical Cross with reality; smashes the whole structure of the Cross

Promised Messiah 1835-1908 says:

It is, indeed, unfortunate that (the investigators) when the name and mention of Jesus are contained in the ancient books of Buddhism; these investigators should adopt the awkward course of trying to find traces of Buddha’s faith in Palestine.

Why should they not search for the blessed footprints of Jesus on the rocky soil of Nepal, Tibet, and Kashmir?

I know, however, that these investigators could not be expected to discover the truth, which was hidden under a thousand veils of darkness; it was the work rather of God, who saw from heaven that man-worship, over-stepping all limits, had spread over the world and that the worship of the Cross and of the supposed sacrifice of a human being had alienated the hearts of many millions of people from the true God, Whose Jealousy sent to the world a servant of His in the name of Jesus of Nazareth, to break the creed of the Cross.

In accordance with the old promise he appeared as the Promised Messiah. Then there came the time for the breaking of the Cross, i.e. the time when the error of the creed of the Cross was to be made plain like the breaking in two of a piece of wood. So now is the time when Heaven has opened the way for the breaking of the Cross, so that a seeker after truth may look around and search for the same.

The idea of Jesus ascending into heaven, though it was an error, had nevertheless a significance, namely, that the Messianic Reality had been forgotten and had become obliterated as a corpse is eaten up by the earth of the grave; this Messianic Reality was believed to be in existence in heaven in the corporeal form of a human being.

It was inevitable, therefore, that this Reality should descend to the earth in the latter days. It has descended to the earth in this age in the shape of a living human being; it has broken the Cross; and the evils of falsehood and of worship of untruth, which our Holy Prophet in the Hadith about the Cross, has compared to swine, have been cut to pieces along with the breaking of the Cross, just as a swine is cut with the sword.

This Hadith does not mean that the Promised Messiah would kill the Kafirs and break crosses: rather, the breaking of the Cross means that in that age the God of Heaven and Earth would bring out the hidden Reality which, all of a sudden, would smash the whole structure of the Cross.

The killing of swine does not mean the killing of men nor of swine but the killing of swinish qualities — like persistence in falsehood and insistence upon presenting the same to others, which is like eating dirt. Just as, therefore, a dead swine cannot eat dirt, so, there would come a time — nay, it has come already — when evil natures would be prevented from eating dirt of this kind.

The Muslim Ulema have been misled in interpreting this prophecy. The real meaning of the breaking of the Cross and of the killing of swine is that which I have stated.

Moreover, in the time of the Promised Messiah, religious wars would be brought to an end; and Heaven would so reflect the resplendent Truth as to bring to one’s view the radiant difference between truth and falsehood.

Do not think, therefore, that I have come with a sword. Nay, I have come to put all swords back into their sheaths. The world has been fighting a good deal in the dark. Many a man has attacked his true well-wishers, wounded the hearts of sympathetic friends, and injured his dear ones. But now, darkness is no more. Night is gone and now it is day. Blessed is he who remains deprived no longer!

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/ch4.html

Paarsurrey says:

Please read the above view-point of the Promised Messiah and accept the truth only if it satisfies your heart and soul, your mind and conscience;absolutely no compulsion.

My Christian friends should feel free to make any peaceful comments; even if they differ with me.

I love Jesus , Mary and Muhammad.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

http://rpc.technorati.com/rpc/ping

Jesus neither died of flogging nor of torture on Cross

2008-09-25T21:13:00.000-07:00

• Paul’s mythical Cross cracks under Ahmadia arguments

• Christians change their stand ; Jesus died of follogging not by torture on Cross

• Jesus neither died of flogging nor of torture on Cross

• Jesus died honourably and naturally later at some point in the history

ubahleeob says:

While commenting on the post : "Jesus’ short duration on Cross; death on Cross is meant to take days, not hours"

I have received following e-mail from our Christien friend ubahleeob of http://ubahleeob.wordpress.com/

He (Jesus) had been beaten, relentlessly for hours. The scripture says that he did not even appear human. We know that he was at the point of exhaustion, he was not able to carry his cross -- another had to carry it for him. And yes, crucifixion can take days. However, the Nazi's used this type of torture (suspending people from their arms) and some of these poor souls died in less than an hour. Lastly, he died when his mission had been completed. Remember, Jesus said, "it is complete" and then he released his spirit. They didn't kill him, he died willingly and right on time.

peace

Paarsurrey says:

One can see the exaggerations made in the above passage peculiar with the Christians while narratings the events of Crucifxion. I think it would be difficult for ubahleeob to substantiate his stance from the literal text of the four gosples.

I request him to do it.

Please quote text and essence of your arguments from within your religious Revealed Book - the four Gospels; and refrain adding anything from within yourself that which is not there in the Gospels, since that would prove that the Gospels are man-made and not Revealed.

Jesus neither died of flogging nor of torture on Cross; GodAllahYHWH made good his escape against all odds from dying a cursed death on Cross.Jesus died honourably and naturally later at some point in the history.

Any Chrirstian, please.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

http://rpc.technorati.com/rpc/ping

Christians! Don't believe the deviant Paul; have faith in Jesus who travelled to India after the event of Crucifixion

2008-09-24T22:39:00.000-07:00

Paarsurrey says:

Hi Christians!

Please don’t believe the deviant Paul; have faith in Jesus who travelled to india after the event of Crucifixion to complete his mission towards lost sheep or Lost Ten Tribes of Israel who were settled there.Kindly see hereunder his probable route of travel. This is supported by history also.

For details kindly access:

here

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

whitemunara@yahoo.com

http://rpc.technorati.com/rpc/ping

the sun of Christianity did rise in India with Jesus’ personal advent in the area; many teachings of Jesus became interwoven with Gautama Buddha’s teachings

2008-09-23T19:27:00.000-07:00

Tomb of Jesus:

Recently discovered and preserved in Kashmir, India.

The Kashmir Tomb

The burial place of Jesus in Kashmir is known to the locals as Rauzabal, meaning the Honored Tomb.

It is known as the tomb of Yuz Asaf, which may be of Buddhist derivation (see link) or possibly from Yusu or Yehoshua (Jesus) the Gatherer.

Local tradition states that the entombed was a prophet of Ahle-Kitab, or People of the Book, and his name was Isa - the Quranic name for Jesus.

The prophet Yuz Asaf came to Kashmir from the West (Holy Land) in the reign of Raja Gopdatta (c 1st century A.D) according to the ancient official documents held by the current custodian of the tomb.

Some of the most extensive research on the tomb has been conducted by the now retired famous historian and former Head of Archaelogy for State of Kashmir, Professor Fida Hassnain.

The tomb is Jewish, as attested by the direction the grave is lying. Next to the grave is a footprint engraved in stone, an artistic rendition of the wounds of crucifixion.

Ancient Texts:

Buddhist and Hindu texts confirm his travels to the region.

The Testimony Hindu and Buddhist Texts

First century A.D Northern India was a vast center of not only Hinduism, but also Buddhism. The Israelite peoples whom Jesus ministered to in these areas were in a minority practicing Judaism, but it is likely many adopted the indigenous faiths of Hinduism and Buddhism also.

It is possible to trace Jesus’s footprints in these lands from some of these texts.

The ancient books of Hindus are called Puranas. One book, Bhavishya Maha Purana (written in Sanskrit) contains an account of a king of India, Salivahana meeting “Isa-Masiha” (Jesus the Messiah)- a religious personage of fair complexion who was a foreigner.

Buddhist texts contain a prophecy of future Buddha, a bodhisattva, named ‘Bagwa Metteyya’ a Pali phrase which literally means “fair-complexioned”, or “white traveller”. The etymological resemblance of the word “Metteyya” to “Messiah” is established and one meaning of the word “Messiah” is traveler.

As the sun of Christianity did rise in India with Jesus’ personal advent in the area, many teachings of Jesus became interwoven with Gautama Buddha’s teachings. Even certain parables as recorded in the New Testament became attributed to Buddha, such as parable of the sower which is found in Buddhist texts.

It has been proposed that the word Yuz Asaf, the name of the person entombed in Kashmir, is derived from Buddha Asaf, as Jesus would have been included in the Buddhist pantheon of saints. The term would thus mean a Buddha who rallied people, or gathered the flock of the true faith.

His Ultimate Victory:

Saved from the cross, he completed his mission.

Purpose Fulfilled

Jesus found acceptance in the lands of the Lost Tribes, and completed his mission by travelling eastward to these ancient Israelite communities.

One objection is, if Jesus spent most of his life in India, why is that part of his life so unknown and forgotten?

One has to keep in mind the phenomenon of what happens to a religion’s presence when another religion takes over. For instance modern day Afghanistan was a vast center of Buddhism and had some of the largest statues of Buddha in the world carved in stone. That faith has now vanished there. Another example are the pagan religions of Europe prior to Christianity arriving there.

The Israelite peoples of Afghanistan and Kashmir accepted Islam. Jesus had foretold the coming of messenger after him, the Paraclete of the gospels, fulfilled in the person of Holy Prophet Muhammad.

With time, the old faith of Christianity was forgotten over generations so that now there are mainly ‘orthodox Muslims’ in these same areas holding beliefs as other ‘orthodox Muslims’.

However, remnants of the followers of Jesus Christ still exists in the vicinity of Herat, Afghanistan. The British scholar O.M Burke in his book ‘Among the Dervishes’ has described these peoples. Though they are now Muslims, they did not forget their Christian legacy. They have a special attachment to Jesus and refer to him as ‘Yuz Asaf the Kashmiri’ who came to preach to them.

http://www.alislam.org/topics/jesus/

Paarsurrey says:

Please read the above Ahmadia view-point and accept the truth only if it satisfies your heart and soul, your mind and conscience;absolutely no compulsion.

My Christian friends should feel free to make any peaceful comments; even if they differ with me.

I love Jesus , Mary and Muhammad.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

whitemunara@yahoo.com

http://rpc.technorati.com/rpc/ping

Fearing the chance of re-arrest; Jesus’ hurriedly travells away from the site of Crucifixion ; meets only his closest followers, avoids opposing Jews

2008-09-22T21:11:00.000-07:00

His Denial:

Of being an apparition, baring his wounds he called for food.

Wounded, but Alive

After the crucifixion, Jesus came under the care of his devoted followers who brought him into a spacious tomb.

If a man survived the death punishment, we would expect such a person to show clear evidence of the wounds. We would expect him to keep a low profile and move away from the place of crucifixion, as there may be the chance of re-arrest. Fear would be exhibited by his followers out of concern for their m After the crucifixion, Jesus came under the care of his devoted followers who brought him into a spacious tomb aster.

The Gospel testimony leads precisely to that conclusion.

Jesus shows his wounds to Thomas (John 20:25-7), showing he did not have a supernatural, resurrected body, but a patient’s body.

He hurriedly travelled away from the locality of the crucifixion and chose to meet only his closest followers:

“Go tell my brothers to leave for Galilee, and they will see me there” (Matthew 28:10).

The followers of Jesus were frightened to the extent that they decided not to tell anyone about his emergence from the tomb (Mark 16:8).

Not once did Jesus appear before his persecutors or wandered through the center of Jerusalem asking people now to accept him as the resurrected Messiah who had atoned for their sins.

All we have is a man in his earthly body of flesh and bones (Luke 24:39) who suffered pangs of hunger (Luke 24:41) and staying out of the lime-light. In convincing his disciples that he had the same wounded body, he in effect was showing he never died as God saved him from the ordeal just as Jonah emerged alive from the fish (see “Sign of Jonah”).

Life after Crucifixion

After his survival, Jesus travelled as far as Kashmir, India and preached to the Lost Tribes of Israel. His tomb can be found there to this day.

Lost Tribes Found:

He went towards India in search of the lost tribes.

Beyond the Euphrates

Traditional Jewish history and Biblical texts divided this Semitic people into twelve tribes. In the time of Jesus, only two of the tribes were in the region Jesus preached, whereas the whereabouts of the remaining ten has always been a bit of a mystery.

The second century historian Josephus wrote in his book Antiquities of the Jews that the ten tribes were ‘beyond Euphrates’ in his time, east of present day Iraq and in the Persian empire of the time which extended into India.

It is also notable that early Church history documents the existence of a Gospel in the Hebrew language found in India, which also confirms Israelites in India. St Jerome (c 400 A.D) wrote that the scholar Pantaenus in the second century came across the document in his travels. St Jerome further wrote that the Israelites in his time continue to live in the Persian empire.

The mission of Jesus was to reach out to the Lost Tribes (or ‘Sheep’) of Israel, as stated in Matthew 15:24. It was thus imperative for him to migrate to the east.

The mass of evidence showing that the peoples of Afghanistan, north-west India (particularly Kashmir) and neighboring areas are of Israelite ancestry continues to grow. Their physical features, language, folklore, customs and festivals attest to their Israelite heritage. Evidence also come from the names they give to their villages, their monuments and ancient historical works.

Some pilot genetic studies on peoples in India who to this day call themselves ‘Bene Israel’ or ‘Children of Israel’ confirm their middle eastern origin.

http://www.alislam.org/topics/jesus/

Paarsurrey says:

Please read the above Ahmadia view-point and accept the truth only if it satisfies your heart and soul, your mind and conscience;absolutely no compulsion.
My Christian friends should feel free to make any peaceful comments; even if they differ with me.

I love Jesus , Mary and Muhammad.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

whitemunara@yahoo.com

http://rpc.technorati.com/rpc/ping

Pilate surprised to learn that Jesus had passed away so soon ; His testimony is extremely important and revealing

2008-09-21T18:27:00.000-07:00

Short Duration:

Death on the cross is meant to take days, not hours.

Death by Crucifixion Takes Days

When the news of the supposed death of Jesus reached Pilate, he was surprised to learn that Jesus had passed away so soon (Mark 15:44). His testimony is extremely important and revealing. Here was the man who probably had the most knowledge in his time of the nature of the punishment of crucifixion and likely officiated over many such crucifixions.

Though many details of the crucifixion have been lost with the end of the Roman Empire, there are ample records to show this particular punishment took at least two to three days to kill a person. For example, good testimony comes from historian Flavius Josephus in the first century A.D who described survivors of crucifixions. The writer Plutarch (c 75 A.D) mentions some individuals surviving some ten days on the cross.

The New Bible Dictionary also concluded based on the historical facts of crucifixion that “death by this method was usually quite protracted, rarely supervening before thirty-six hours, and on occasion taking as long as nine days” (1962 ed, Intervarsity Press, Page 282).

Pilate’s Plot:

Having sympathy for Jesus, he planned to save him.

Convinced of His Innocence

It is notable in the New Testament testimony that Pontius Pilate believed Jesus to be innocent and did not want him executed. One of the influences was a dream Pilate’s wife convincing her of Jesus’ innocence, and the message she passed on to Pilate was “leave that innocent man alone” (Matthew 27:19).

Pilate eventually acquiesced to the demand of the Jews that Jesus be crucified, as a riot was developing. However he then asked for a bowl of water and washed his hands before the crowd and exclaimed “I am innocent of the blood of this man. The responsibility is yours!” (Matthew 27:24) .

The Plan to Save Jesus

An analysis of the Gospels clearly reveals Pilate had an interest in saving Jesus’ life to the best of this ability while trying to maintain official execution procedure as mandated by Roman law. Three key points may be noted:

He set the crucifixion day just before the Sabbath, as Jewish law specifically prohibits bodies to hang on the cross by the start of Sabbath. Death would be unlikely to ensue within 6 hours (see “Short Duration”)

When the time came to remove Jesus and the two others on the cross, the Jews asked Pilate to break the legs of Jesus (John 19:31). However the centurions acting on Pilate’s command did not break the legs of Jesus (John 19:33). It was because he had taken these precautionary measures that Pilate was surprised when he was told that Jesus was “already dead” (Mark 15:44).

Roman protocol was that body would lie on the crucifixion grounds and be subjected to the elements and animals. However Pilate allowed something quite interesting to take place by deviating from standard practice. He allowed Jesus to be given to Jesus’ friends not his enemies.

Healing Herbs:

Used for healing the living — not embalming the dead.

Aloe and Myrrh

After the crucifixion, the body of Jesus came into the hands of his disciples Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus

The Gospel of John records that Nicodemus brought myrrh and aloes ‘about a seventy-five pounds in weight’ (John 19:39). These plants, particularly aloe plants, are considered medicinal and applied to wounds. It was used extensively in many ancient cultures is used even today to soothe open wounds. The Roman physician Pedanius Dioscrorides (c 75 B.C) recommended aloe for wounds and skin conditions. Alexander the Great’s mentor, Aristotle, persuaded him to capture the island of Socotra to harvest the aloe plants for treating wounded soldiers.

Interestingly, the medieval near eastern classic textbook of medicine entitled Canon of Medicine by Avicenna mentioned an ointment termed Marhami Isa (Ointment of Jesus).

Unbroken Legs:

This would have prevented death by respiratory distress.

Saved from a Fatal Blow

After Jesus supposedly ‘died’ on the cross a Roman soldier made a decision not to break the legs of Jesus while on the cross. The episode fulfilled a prophecy and was not without meaning.

The Gospel of John (19:36) tells us that the Scripture was fulfilled (based on Psalms 34:20) - a bone of his shall not be broken. The Roman soldier did not bother to break the legs of Jesus to hasten death since he thought he was already dead. Breaking the legs would have been devastating due to the severe trauma of blood loss and consequential hypovolemic shock by breaking one of the larger bones in the body, the tibia, in each leg.

The Scriptural attention to not breaking the legs can only be meaningful if the body was alive - it is a meaningless issue for a corpse. A fuller reading of Psalm 34, verses 19 and 20 underscores it:

“The righteous face many troubles but the Lord rescues them from each and every one. For the Lord protects them from harm - not one of their bones will be broken.”

http://www.alislam.org/topics/jesus/

Paarsurrey says:

Please read the above Ahmadia view-point and accept the truth only if it satisfies your heart and soul, your mind and conscience;absolutely no compulsion.

My Christian friends should feel free to make any peaceful comments; even if they differ with me.

I love Jesus , Mary and Muhammad.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

http://rpc.technorati.com/rpc/ping

Jesus cried on the Cross; “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me!”

2008-09-20T19:31:00.000-07:00

The sign of Jonah is related in the Bible:

The Lord provided a great fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah was inside the fish three days and three nights. From inside the fish Jonah prayed to the Lord his God. He said: In my distress I called to the Lord, and he answered me. From the depths of the grave I called for help, and you listened to my cry. (Jonah 1:17, 2:1,2)

The sign given to the Ninevites by Jonah was he was saved from certain death. He stayed for a period of time in danger, but ultimately recovered. He went alive into the belly of the fish, stayed alive for days, and came out alive.

The same fate was prophecied for Jesus. He would enter the tomb alive, stay alive for days, and come out alive. If Jesus had died, there would be little resemblance to Jonah.

The story of Jonah is one of survival — not revival.

Blood and Water: Gushed from the spear wound, a sign of a beating heart. Corpses Do Not Bleed

An important piece of information is mentioned in the Gospel of John which supports the view that Jesus did not die on the cross:

"One of the soldiers pierced Jesus' side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water" (John 19:34).

Blood pouring out is a sign of intact circulation, with the spear injuring an arteriole. Note the words 'sudden flow' which implies blood pressure. The 'water' was perhaps pleural fluid, present between the rib cage and lungs.

As blood does not rush out of corpses, the quoted verse did present a problem to at least one Church Father, Origen. In his exegesis of John 19:34, he admitted that blood coagulates after death, but the flow of blood in this case constituted a miracle and thus needed no explanation. (Contra Celsus, by Origen, translated by H. Chadwick, Cambridge U).

The spear thrust into the side of Jesus was not meant as a kind of definitive blow, but as a rough (and actually inaccurate) indicator if death had occurred. If the intent were to kill, the soldier would have stabbed into the front of the chest to injure the heart. However, in the event the person was not on the cross for sufficient length of time, death was usually caused by breaking the legs, as was done with the individuals hanging along side Jesus.

Breaking with Protocol

The Gospel testimony it should be pointed out is inconsistent on the point of the centurion wanting to ensure the death of Jesus. On the one hand, the centurion saw that Jesus was 'already dead' so he did not bother to break his legs (see "Legs not Broken") as against the demand of the Jews to hasten death by breaking his bones on account of the Sabbath (John 19:31) which was the standard protocol. On the other hand the centurion pierced Jesus' side. Was this done to cause death if he was uncertain about it? If so, why were the bones not broken also which was the standard, brutal method? How can we not assume there were some elements of sympathy from at least some of the Romans, starting from Pilate on top (see "Pilate's Plot") and going down the chain of command?

It is alleged the Romans executioners were cold, brutal and blood thirsty experts in the art of putting people to death. Not only do we have some inconsistency in actions documented on the part of the centurion, we also have what appears to a be a very sympathetic Roman officer and even a closet follower of Jesus, as marked by his words when he was looking on at the cross when Jesus supposedly died: "Truly this man was the Son of God" (Mark 15:39).

Prayer at Gethsemane:

He prayed to be rescued from death on the cross.

Prayer in the Garden

When it appeared that there was no way to avoid the devious plans of the Jews to have him crucified, Jesus prayed fervently 'to remove the cup' of death upon the cross (Mark 14:36).

Jesus had full confidence that his prayers in the Garden of Gethsemane would be accepted as he himself told his disciples:

"If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer" (Matthew 21:22).

"Keep on asking, and you will be given what you ask for. Keep on looking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And the door is opened to everyone who knocks. You parents- if your children ask for a loaf of bread, do you give them a stone instead? Of if they ask for fish, do you give them a snake?" (Matthew 7:7-9)

God Accepted His Prayer

The prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane was the most important and grand prayer offered by Jesus and portrayed quite vividly in the Gospels. It is inconceivable that the prayer did not reach the Divine Throne, especially as Jesus taught his disciples the power of prayer.

Indeed we need not guess. The Gospels furnish evidence that his prayer was accepted.

The Gospel of Luke states an angel came from Heaven "strengthening him" (Luke 22:43). This indicates God had heard his heart-felt prayer.

After his supplication in the garden, when Jesus was apprehended, one of his followers drew a sword, struck a servant of a high priest and cut off his ear. Jesus sternly rebuked him and said:

"Those who use the sword will be killed by the sword. Don't you realize that I could ask my Father for thousands of angels to protect us, and he would send them instantly?"(Matthew 26:52-53).

This shows Jesus was now in perfect contentment that his prayer was accepted and all could be left now in the hands of God, with no need for active self-defence.

Finally, when death looked imminent and he was in agony on the cross he cried "Eli Eli lama sabachthani"* (Matthew 27:45-46) because he did not expect that it would come to this. He fully believed the prayer would be accepted.

* Translation: My God, my God, why have you forsaken me!

http://www.alislam.org/topics/jesus/

Paarsurrey says:

Please read the above Ahmadia view-point and accept the truth only if it satisfies your heart and soul, your mind and conscience;absolutely no compulsion.

My Christian friends should feel free to make any peaceful comments; even if they differ with me.

I love Jesus , Mary and Muhammad.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

http://rpc.technorati.com/rpc/ping

Jesus survived crucifixion and travelled towards India to continue his ministry among the Lost Tribes of Israel

2008-09-19T22:16:00.000-07:00

Jesus - A Humble Prophet of God

Ahmadi Muslims hold the unique belief that Jesus (peace be upon him) survived the crucifixion and travelled towards India to continue his ministry among the Lost Tribes of Israel.

Furthermore, they claim that his tomb, containing his body, has been recently re-discovered in India where it can be seen to this day.

Ahmadi Muslims also assert that this belief is not only upheld by the Holy Quran and the Sayings of Muhammad sa, but even by the Holy Bible itself.

Life before Crucifixion

Ahmadi Muslims believe that Jesus was a Prophet of God born to the Virgin Mary and was the Messiah of the Israelites as foretold by Moses .

Jesus - A Righteous Servant of God

The Holy Quran affirms the virgin birth of Jesus, and repudiates the notion that Mary was not pious and that her birth was illegitimate. The Quran narrates Mary’s statement to an angel: “How can I have a child when no man has touched me and neither have I been unchaste?” (19:21)

Moreover, it is on account of her piety that Chapter 19 in the Quran is named after her, and all pious Muslims are likened to her.

A Very Rare Phenomenon

The virgin birth of Jesus was a miracle, no doubt. But according to the Ahmadiyya Muslim view, miracles always work in accordance with God’s laws, no matter how limited our understanding of those laws are.

Modern science has only just begun to study this rare phenomenon.

For example, In lower animals rare instances of virgin births have been well documented, representing a complete surprise to zoologists. There are even reports — albeit scattered — of fatherless human conceptions.

Of course, research continues and the mention of these phenomena is only given here to demonstrate that what was once considered impossible can indeed be plausible.

Son of God:

Jesus used this metaphor for all believers, not just himself. While the term “Son of God” has been used in reference to Jesus, it should be noted that God has used this title for many of His chosen ones.

For example, God, in the Old Testament refers to David: “I will proclaim the decree of the LORD: He said to me, ‘You are my Son; today I have begotten you’” * (Psalm 2:7)

Furthermore, in a New Testament genealogy, Adam is listed as the “Son of God” (Luke 3.38). In fact, some may argue that Adam could have a greater claim over the “Sonship of God” because, unlike Jesus, he had neither an earthly father nor mother.

In order to reconcile these references and many others, it is not unreasonable to conclude, that the Biblical usage of the term “Son of God” does not necessarily connote a literal “sonship to God” but a metaphorical one instead.

The Nature of Jesus

This metaphorical understanding is furthered by Jesus’ own words and actions. Jesus is known to have engaged in many human devotional activities such as fasting and praying. But perhaps the most significant evidence is that Jesus claimed to lack knowledge of the future because, as he claimed, only the Father possessed perfect knowledge. (Mark 13:32).

This is especially notable since Christian doctrine holds the view that Jesus’ nature is a “hypostatic union”. That is, he was “fully divine” and “fully man” at the same time. If this were true, then he should have at no point denied his own omniscience.

These, in addition to other philosophical considerations, lead one to question the biblical term “Son of God” and its literal application to Jesus.

* In addition to the translation given, the New International Version states the the phrase “have begotten you” could also be translated as “have become your Father.”

His Miracles:

A sign of his truth, like the many other prophets of God.

The Miracles of Jesus in the Holy Quran

The Holy Quran narrates several miracles of Jesus, including his ability to create birds, to cure ailments including blindness and raise the dead to life (Quran 3:50).

Ahmadi Muslims interpret these particular signs metaphorically. The people who accepted Jesus soared high like birds into the spiritual firmament above worldly, base concerns. Similarly in the metaphoric sense, he restored sight to the spiritually blind and life to the spiritually dead.

Jesus himself called the enemies of his day “blind” because of their hypocritical nature in matters of faith (Matthew 23:26). The very nature of his words about healing convey a spiritual change, not physical.

It should also be remembered that Jesus spoke in parables, such as the famous line, “let the dead bury their dead” (Matthew 8:22).

The Holy Quran also describes disbelievers as deaf, dumb and blind (Quran 2:19) and the Holy Prophet (SAW) offered them ‘life’ and revival from such death (Quran 8:25).

Literal Interpretations

Indeed, it is difficult to insist on the literal interpretation of all Biblical miracles. Even the authoritative Harper’s Bible Commentary goes as far as to recommend that the following miracle relating to the resurrection be ignored.

The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus’ resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.(Matthew 27:52-53)

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, expounds upon the significance of these verses in his landmark book, Jesus in India. He explains that the Bible is actually relating the details of a spiritual vision. And in the language of visions, if anyone sees “that the dead have come out of the graves and have made for their homes, the interpretation is that a prisoner would be released from his bondage, and that he would be rescued from the hands of his persecutors.”

Incidentally, this interpretation is also corroborated by Gustavus Miller’s book, 10,000 Dreams Interpreted.

Ironically, while Christian scholars were advising against deriving any value from certain verses of the Bible, a Muslim, who claimed to be the Promised Messiah, would come to the Bible’s defense by illustrating some of the metaphorical beauties it contained.

Miracles and Divinity

Furthermore, it should be remembered that Elijah also raised the dead to life (I Kings 17:19-22). It is difficult to make an argument about the divinity of Jesus therefore, unless one considers Elijah also divine. The argument that Jesus did the miracles with his own power, whereas God worked through Elijah, is contradicted by the New Testament itself. Acts (2:22) states: ‘Ye men of Israel hear these words, Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved by God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you’.

His Mission:

Confined to the twelve tribes of Israel, not the whole world. The Sheep of Israel

The geographic scope of Jesus’ mission was confined to where the Israelites lived. Jesus even said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.” (Matthew 15:24).

The Israelites followed the Torah, and Jesus came to revive the true spirit of the Torah in the hearts of the Israelites and clear any misunderstandings. He was a follower of Moses and did not change or reject the Mosaic law. The New Testament states Jesus came only to fulfill the Law and not abolish it (Matthew 5:17).

Lost Tribes in Afghanistan

Of the twelve tribes of Israel, only two remained in their homeland. The remaining ten tribes became known as the lost tribes or lost sheep of Israel, since they never returned back home. Most of the tribes settled in Afghanistan, northern India, and as far as China. Therefore, It was thus imperative for Jesus to minister in these areas by travelling there.

Today, there is a good body of evidence showing that certain peoples of Afghanistan and India and neighboring areas are of Israelite heritage. This is based on their own written and oral traditions, physical features, language, folklore, monuments, and customs. Most even call themselves ‘bani Israel’ or ‘children of Israel’.

Survival from Crucifixion

Ahmadi Muslims claim that Jesus (as) survived the crucifixion because he was taken down from the cross in a state of unconsciousness — not death.

Sign of Jonah:

Jesus foretold he would survive just like Jonah did.

The Greatest Miracle of Jesus

Jesus prophecied that his fate would be like that of prophet Jonah.

Jesus said:

“A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth” (Matthew 12:39,40)

Survival — Not Revival

The sign of Jonah is related in the Bible:

The Lord provided a great fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah was inside the fish three days and three nights. From inside the fish Jonah prayed to the Lord his God. He said: In my distress I called to the Lord, and he answered me. From the depths of the grave I called for help, and you listened to my cry. (Jonah 1:17, 2:1,2)

The sign given to the Ninevites by Jonah was he was saved from certain death. He stayed for a period of time in danger, but ultimately recovered. He went alive into the belly of the fish, stayed alive for days, and came out alive.

The same fate was prophecied for Jesus. He would enter the tomb alive, stay alive for days, and come out alive. If Jesus had died, there would be little resemblance to Jonah.

The story of Jonah is one of survival — not revival.

http://www.alislam.org/topics/jesus/

Paarsurrey says:

Please read the above Ahmadia view-point and accept the truth only if it satisfies your heart and soul, your mind and conscience;absolutely no compulsion.

My Christian friends should feel free to make any peaceful comments; even if they differ with me.

I love Jesus , Mary and Muhammad.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

http://rpc.technorati.com/rpc/ping

Buddhism is the Christianity of the East, and Christianity the Buddhism of the West

2008-09-18T18:48:00.000-07:00

Promised Messiah 1835-1908 says:

It should not be surprising if the Buddha, on the basis of revelation from God, should declare Jesus to be his 'son'. Another piece of circumstantial evidence is that in the same book it is recorded that when 'Rahula' was separated from his mother, a woman who was a follower of the Buddha and whose name was Magdaliyana, acted as a messenger. It would be noticed that the name Magdaliyana is in reality a corrupt form of Magdalene, a woman follower of Jesus mentioned in the Gospels.

All this evidence, which has been briefly set out, leads impartial people to the conclusion that Jesus must needs have come to this country, and, apart from all such clear evidence, no wise man can afford to disregard the similarity, to be found especially in Tibet, between the teaching and the ceremonial of Buddhism and Christianity. Nay, rather, there is such a striking resemblance between them that most Christian thinkers believe that Buddhism is the Christianity of the East, and Christianity the Buddhism of the West.

It is strange indeed that just as Jesus says, 'I am the Light and the Way', the same is said by the Buddha; just as the Gospels call Jesus the Saviour, the Buddha too calls himself the Saviour (see Lalta Wasattara). In the Gospels it is stated that Jesus had no father, and with regard to the Buddha it is stated that in reality he was born without a father, although apparently, just as Jesus had a father, Joseph, so had the Buddha a father.

It is also stated that a star rose at the time of the Buddha's birth; there is also the story of Solomon ordering the cutting of the child in two halves and giving one of these halves to each of two women, which is found in the Buddha's Jataka. This, apart from showing that Jesus has come to this country, also shows that the Jews of that country who had come to this land had developed connections with Buddhism.

The story of Genesis as stated in books of the Buddhist faith has a great resemblance to the same story given in the Torah. Just as according to the Torah man is considered superior to woman, so, in the religion of the Buddha, a monk is considered superior to a nun.

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/ch4.html

Paarsurrey says:

I have been posting here for quite sometimes now. I have never made personal comments against anybody. I respect everybody and everybody’s religion. I sincerely believe and I am convinced with solid reasons that the Divine Guide or Second Coming of Christ has taken place in the metaphoric advent of Promised Messiah 1835-1908.

Promised Messiah 1835-1908 writes with the help of Holy Spirit/Angels and GodAllahYHWH has endowed him with wisdom and have spoken with him many a times. This wisdom is reflected in his writings, of which some you must have tasted through my posts.

Every Christian, Hindu and Jew is welcome to comment writings of the Promised Messiah 1835-1908 peacefully; and such comments will be displayed on my blog; and be a source of comparative study of religions by the searching souls for truth.

I am sure that nobody among Christians, Hindus and Jews is endowed from GodAllahYHWH, the power to exceed Promised Messiah 1835-1908 in truthful arguments, reasons, logic and rationality.

If they try; they will be ashamed of their blind faiths haded over to them by their peers through ages. They would realize that though their faiths were truthful in their origin – when revealed by God; yet their truth content has been diluted with time.

There is no harm if one tries to.

The comments will be free for everybody to see and the common conscience of humanity will be free to see through them and decide after due research as to where the truth lies. Everybody will be free to accept the truth wherever and wherefrom it comes; no compulsion whatsoever.

Peaceful comments are welcome here; even of those who differ with me.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

http://rpc.technorati.com/rpc/ping

nobody among Christians, Hindus and Jews is endowed from GodAllahYHWH, the power to exceed Promised Messiah 1835-1908 in truthful arguments, reasons, logic and rationality

2008-09-17T21:24:00.000-07:00

Paarsurrey says:

I have been posting here for quite sometimes now. I have never made personal comments against anybody. I respect everybody and everybody’s religion. I sincerely believe and I am convinced with solid reasons that the Divine Guide or Second Coming of Christ has taken place in the metaphoric advent of Promised Messiah 1835-1908.

Promised Messiah 1835-1908 writes with the help of Holy Spirit/Angels and GodAllahYHWH has endowed him with wisdom and have spoken with him many a times. This wisdom is reflected in his writings, of which some you must have tasted through my posts.

Every Christian, Hindu and Jew is welcome to comment writings of the Promised Messiah 1835-1908 peacefully; and such comments will be displayed on my blog; and be a source of comparative study of religions by the searching souls for truth.

I am sure that nobody among Christians, Hindus and Jews is endowed from GodAllahYHWH, the power to exceed Promised Messiah 1835-1908 in truthful arguments, reasons, logic and rationality.

If they try; they will be ashamed of their blind faiths haded over to them by their peers through ages. They would realize that though their faiths were truthful in their origin – when revealed by God; yet their truth content has been diluted with time.

There is no harm if one tries to.

The comments will be free for everybody to see and the common conscience of humanity will be free to see through them and decide after due research as to where the truth lies. Everybody will be free to accept the truth wherever and wherefrom it comes; no compulsion whatsoever.

Peaceful comments are welcome here; even of those who differ with me.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

http://rpc.technorati.com/rpc/ping

‘No one else is like us’ became the slogon of the ancients and they monopolized the institution of prophethood to their own family

2008-09-16T20:02:00.000-07:00

Promised Messiah 1835-1908 says:

Now we return to the original subject of discussion: the age when one religion was unaware of the existence of the other. In that general state of ignorance, it was but natural that every people should have considered their own religion and their own book to be the only one.

Eventually when countries became linked to each other through the spread of knowledge, this trend of monopolising God resulted in the creation of another obstacle in the path of mutual understanding.

People began to expect the religions in every other country to agree with theirs, or else they stood rejected. It was no easy task to rid such religions of the poetical exaggerations built around them over the ages.

So the followers of every religion braced themselves to vehemently oppose the other. So, also, the religion of Zend-Avesta raised the flag with the claim that, ‘No one else is like us’ and they monopolized the institution of prophethood to their own family.

They related such a long history of their religion, that those who used to pride the longevity of Vedic history were put to shame.

In their turn, the faith of the Hebrews crossed every limit when they asserted that Syria was declared to be the eternal seat of God’s sovereignty and that only the pious among them would be considered worthy of being sent for the reformation

of the world. But in effect, the work of reformation remained limited to the House of Israel, and the revelation of God became the prerogative of only their House under the seal of God. All others who rose with a claim were considered liars and imposters.

Likewise, among the Aryas, similar views to those which were widespread among the Israelites gained favour.

According to their belief, God is the King of the Aryas alone; a king of the type who is totally unaware of the existence of others. And without rhyme or reason, it is believed that God had forever set His heart on the Arya climate. Little does He care to visit other countries once in a while, to inquire about the state of the miserable people living there whom He had once created only to forget them forever.

Paarsurrey says:

Comments are welcome here; even of those who differ with me.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

http://rpc.technorati.com/rpc/ping

Josephus, who wrote the ancient history of the Jews in 93 A.D testifies; the ten tribes were settled beyond the Euphrates

2008-09-15T19:50:00.000-07:00

Promised Messiah 1835-1908 says:

In appearance the Afghans resemble the Jews in all respects. Like them, the younger brother marries the widow of the elder brother. A French traveller, L. P. Ferrier by name, who passed through Herat, states that in this territory there are many Israelites who have complete liberty in the observance of the customs of their faith.

The Rabbi Bin Yamin of Toledo (Spain) in the twelfth century A.D. ventured out in search of the lost tribes. He states that these Jews are settled in China, Iran and Tibet.

Josephus,* who wrote the ancient history of the Jews in 93 A.D. in his eleventh book, in the course of his account of the Jews who escaped from bondage with the Prophet Ezra, states that the ten tribes were settled beyond the Euphrates even at that time, and that their numbers could not be counted. By beyond the Euphrates are meant Persia and the eastern territories.

St. Jerome who lived in the fifth century A.D., writing about the Prophet Hosea, concerning this subject, states in the margin that from that day the ten tribes (of the Israelites) have been under king Parthya i.e., Paras, and have not been released from bondage.

In the first volume of the same book it is stated that Count Juan Steram writes on page 233-34 of his book that the Afghans admit that Nebuchadnezzar, after the destruction of the Temple at Jerusalem, exiled them to the territory of Bamiyan (this lies adjacent to Ghaur, in Afghanistan).

In the book, A Narrative of a Visit to Ghazni, Kabul and Afghanistan by G. T. Vigne, F.G.S. (1840), on page 166,** it is stated that one Mullah Khuda Dad read out from a book called Majma-ul-Ansab that the eldest son of Jacob was Yahuda, whose son was Usrak; Usrak’s son was Aknur; Aknur’s son was Maalib; Maalib’s Ka-Farlai; Farlai’s Qais, Qais’ Talut; Talut’s Armea, and Armea’s son was Afghan whose descendants are the Afghan people and after whom the latter are named.

Afghan was the contemporary of Nebuchadnezzar; he was called a descendant of Israel, and had forty sons. In the 34th degree, after 2000 years, was born Qais who lived in the time of Muhammad (The Holy Prophet, on whom be peace and blessings of God). His descendants multiplied unto 64 generations. Afghan’s eldest son, called Salm, migrated from his home in Syria and settled in Ghaur Mashkoh, near Herat. His descendants spread into Afghanistan.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

*Josephus Flavius, Antiquities, Translated by Jewish W. M. Whitson (Hurst, Rees, Orme & Brown: London).

What: Do you stretch your hopes beyond the river Euphrates? Do any one of you think that your fellow tribes will come to your aid out of Adiabene? Besides, if they would, the Parthians would not permit them. (XI, V. 2).

This is a quotation from a Jesih King (Agrippa) to the Jewish to submit to the Romans and not to look to the Jews from beyond the river Euphrates.

Josephus was in the reign of Vespasian, in the latter part of the first Christian century.

**A personal narrative of a visit to Chuzin, Cabul, in Afghanistan G. T. Vigne F.R.G.S. (London: Whittaker, 1840).

Pages 166-67. Moolah Khuda Dad, a person learned in the history of his countrymen, read to me, from the Mujmaul-unsal (Collection of Genealogies), the following short account of their origin. They say that the eldest of Jacob’s sons was Judha, whose eldest son was Osruk, who was the father of Okour, the father of Moslib, the father of Farlai, the father of Kys, the father of Talut, the father of Ermiah, the father of Afghans, whence the name of Afghans.

He was contemporary with Nebuchadnezzar, called himself Beni-Israel and had forty sons, whose names there is no occasion to insert. His thirty-fourth descendant in a direct line, after a period of two thousand years, was Kys. From Kys, who lived in the time of the Prophet Mohammed, there have been sixty generations.

Sulum, the eldest son of Afghans, who lived at Sam (Damascus) left that place and came to Ghura Mishkon a country near Herat, and his descendants gradually extended themselves over the country now called Afghanistan.

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/ch4.html

Paarsurrey says:

Comments are welcome here; even of those who differ.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

http://rpc.technorati.com/rpc/ping

Buddha enviously branded an atheist by Hindus and Christians

2008-09-14T20:11:00.000-07:00

Promised Messiah 1835-1908 says:

Gautum Buddha was one brave enough who stood up to achieve this goal. He did not agree with the erroneous view that the Vedas are everything and that there is nothing beyond them. Nor did he believe in any people, country or tribe as being exceptional. In other words, he did not agree that the Vedas enjoyed a monopoly and it was only this faith, this language, this country, and the Brahmans which had been permanently and exclusively registered in the court records of God to become the recipients of His revelation.

He suffered greatly because of expressing these different views and he was accused of being an atheist or an agnostic. Similarly scholars and researchers of Europe and America, who do not accept the godhead of Jesus, and whose hearts refuse to believe that God can be crucified, are atheists according to the Christian priests.

This is how Buddha was branded an atheist. As is the routine of the mischievous antagonists who incite the hatred of common people, he was made a target of many a false accusation. Consequently, he was turned out of the soil on which he was born and bred, the country that was his homeland. Even now, the Hindus view Buddhism with disdain and they begrudge its success. According to Jesus Christ (peace be on him) ‘A Prophet is not without honour save in his own country.’* Buddha migrated to another country and gained tremendous success there.

It is reported that one third of the world is populated by the followers of Buddha. As far as the large majority of adherents is concerned, the real centre lies in China and Japan, but his message has reached as far as Southern Russia and America.

*(Mathew, 13:57) and (Mark, 6:4).

Paarsurrey says:

The comments are welcome here; even of those who differ with me.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

http://rpc.technorati.com/rpc/ping

Can American Medical Board verify a cursed death of Jesus on Cross; from a mythical data of Jesus provided by Church?

2008-09-13T19:01:00.000-07:00

What is this American Medical Board; that verifies Jesus’ cursed death on Cross, without a medical data, after two thousand years?

Can American Medical Board verify a cursed death of Jesus on Cross; without an authentic medical record of Jesus?

Can American Medical Board verify a cursed death of Jesus on Cross; from a mythical data of Jesus provided by Church?

Can a Medical Board verify a cursed death of Jesus on Cross; without an authentic historical medical record of Jesus?

Is some Christian Church Medical Board working in the garb of an American Medical Board? True or false!

Such questions came into Paarsurrey ‘s mind when someone pinged on my Blog from the following Christian websites:

http://www.brainshavings.com/supplements/crucifixion/

ON THE PHYSICAL DEATH OF

JESUS CHRIST

William D. Edwards, MD; Wesley J. Gabel, MDiv; Floyd E Hosmer, MS, AMI

Reprinted from JAMA - The Journal of the American Medical Association

March 21, 1986, Volume 256

Copyright 1986, American Medical Association

ABSTRACT

Jesus of Nazareth underwent Jewish and Roman trials, was flogged, and was sentenced to death by crucifixion. The scourging produced deep stripelike lacerations and appreciable blood loss, and it probably set the stage for hypovolemic shock, as evidenced by the fact that Jesus was too weakened to carry the crossbar (patibulum) to Golgotha. At the site of crucifixion, his wrists were nailed to the patibulum and, after the patibulum was lifted onto the upright post (stipes), his feet were nailed to the stipes. The major pathophysiologic effect of crucifixion was an interference with normal respirations. Accordingly death resulted primarily from hypovolemic shock and exhaustion asphyxia. Jesus' death was ensured by the thrust of a soldier's spear into his side. Modern medical interpretation of the historical evidence indicate that Jesus was dead when taken down from the cross.

Unquote

Paarsurrey: I wanted to ask these questions to the websites that had pinged on my Blog, but I could not do so as there was no provision for any comments there.

Is there somebody here who could answer such questions on his own or on their behalf in the matter? Any peaceful response is welcome here.

I am just a lay man, not a medical doctor, in search for the truth.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

http://rpc.technorati.com/rpc/ping

Christians doubting Jesus’ death on Cross as they doubt Jesus’ resurrection from the physical dead

2008-09-12T23:19:00.000-07:00

Hi

Since Paul built a house on sands that Jesus died a physical death on Cross, the Pauline/Christian creed to lend support to it is in jeopardy. Having none as an eye witness to testify on it to the present or modern standards, they loom about for a supportive dictum. One such is presented by allaboutjesuschrist.org named as Aristotle’s Dictum. I searched for it in the wikipedia, but could find no such eye witness Aristotle’s dictum on Jesus death on Cross.

I would like some Christian with real faith, not a mythical blind faith, to kindly help me find one. A mythical or blind faith is of no use in the face of reality or certainty. Please don’t get disturbed this is perhaps the usual imaginative criteria of the Christian mythical faith.

I give hereunder the relative note from: http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/Jesus-Resurrection.htm

You are here: Jesus Christ >> Jesus’ Resurrection

allaboutjesuschrist.org say:

Jesus’ Resurrection - An Historical Event?

So, is Jesus’ Resurrection from the dead an historical event? It is proclaimed throughout the four Gospels as well as ancient correspondence. If these works are the historical documents they claim to be, then they bare witness to an historical event. According to Aristotle’s Dictum, these pieces meet the criteria for legitimate historical documents. However, as they describe miraculous events, they are not recognized by secular society as valid testimony. How then will these accounts be validated? Two questions must be asked. First, do the authors of these literary pieces discredit their work, or do their lives give credit to their testimony? Second, do accepted historical authorities corroborate these accounts?

Promised Messiah 1835-1908says:

On the evidence from books of history

which show that the coming of Jesus to

the Punjab and neighbouring territories was inevitable

The question naturally arises, why Jesus after his escape from the Cross, came to this country what induced him to take such a long journey? It becomes necessary to answer this question in some detail. I have already said something about it, nevertheless, I think it would be helpful to set out the entire topic in this book.

Let it be noted, therefore, that it was extremely necessary, by reasons of his office as a divine messenger, for Jesus (on whom be peace) to have journeyed towards the Punjab and its neighbourhood, for the ten tribes of Israel, who in the Gospels have been called the Lost Sheep of Israel, had migrated to this country, a fact which is not denied by an historian. It was necessary, therefore, that Jesus (on whom be peace) should have journeyed to this country and, after finding the Lost Sheep, he should have conveyed to them his divine message.

If he had not done so, his purpose would have remained unfulfilled, for his mission was to preach to the Lost Sheep of Israel; his passing away from the world without seeking these lost sheep and, after finding them, teaching them the way to salvation, would have been like the case of a man who had been charged by his king to go to a wild tribe in order to dig a well and supply them with water, but who goes instead to some other place, spends three or four years there and takes no steps to search for the tribe. Does such a man carry out the command of the king? No, not in the least; the man cares not for that tribe: he merely looks to his own comfort.

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/ch4.html

Paarsurrey says:

I would implore everyone reading this post to make a search in the issue and to accept peacefully the truth wherever it comes from. No compulsion.

Comments from my Pauline/Christian friends are welcome here; even if they differ with me.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

http://rpc.technorati.com/rpc/ping

Erroneous impression that they had been the only people so favourably treated by God, while the rest of the world was unfortunate

2008-09-11T20:34:00.000-07:00

Promised Messiah 1835-1908 says:

Is it not then a strange coincidence, that both these peoples (Jews and Hindus) have followed the same path in their dogmatic assertions? Likewise, the followers of many other religions entertain similar views, as for example, the Zoroastrians, who claim that their religion originated billions of years before the Vedic revelation. From this it transpires that the tendency (to confine the revelation of God to one's own language or the Book) is based merely on prejudice and ignorance. This is further abetted by the fact that in the dark ages of the past, people had no access to the information concerning people and countries beyond the boundaries of their homelands. This lack of knowledge on their part led them to draw the wrong conclusions. They had witnessed that God had bestowed upon them a Divine teaching in the form of a Book, and they knew that Messengers of God had been selected from among themselves; hence their erroneous impression that they had been the only people so favourably treated by God, while the rest of the world was unfortunate in being deprived of this blessing.

This erroneous view has done a lot of damage to the world, and it has worked as a seed of mutual enmity and malice which continues to grow. For a long time, it so happened that a people remained hidden from others and one country remained concealed and veiled from the other to the extent that the scholars of the Arya faith used to believe that there was no inhabitation beyond the Himalayas.

When God lifted the veil, it was already too late for them to mend. By this time they were already fixed in their prejudices. All the false distinctive features which people had attributed to their own revealed books, divines, and messengers, had become deeply rooted in their hearts and had become permanently fixed like the etching on stones. Each people had the same misconception that God’s capital was situated in their country. Savage behaviour was predominant among most people of that age. Hence, to them the sword seemed a natural instrument for settling accounts with those people who dared to oppose the old order. Who then would dare to cool down their self-aggrandisement to create an atmosphere conducive to mutual peace?

Paarsurrey says:

The comments are welcome here; even of those who differ with me.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

http://rpc.technorati.com/rpc/ping

It is only doubting scribes who wrote out of sheer conjecture that Jesus died on Cross

2008-09-10T21:51:00.000-07:00

Was Jesus in the grave for three days and three nights?

By: Milburn Cockrell: Courtesy a Christian website: http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/was-jesus-in-the-grave-for-three-days-and-nights.html

“Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: For as Jonas was three days and three night in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth” (Matthew 12:38-40).

Since Jesus claimed to be the Messiah, the Jews demanded a sign of Him to prove His claim. Jesus could give them no better proof that He was the Christ than the literal fulfillment of the well-known sign of Jonah, Luke 11:30. If this sign were not literally fulfilled, it would prove unto them that He was not the Messiah. This was the only sign Jesus ever gave them to prove His Messiahship. Hence the great need for Him to do exactly what He promised them to do.

Mark 8:31 tells us:

“And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.”

Did Christ mean what He said? Did He really expect to be buried in the earth for three days and three nights? Jesus did not say, “After two nights and one day I will rise again.” He said, “After three days I will rise again.” He meant three days and three nights–a full 72 hours!

The Jews remembered this sign when He was crucified.

“Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate, Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again. Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first” (Matthew 27:62-64).

They did all they could to prevent His resurrection. They got the watch, made the sepulchre sure, and sealed the stone. “After three days I will rise again” was necessary to fulfill the Jonah sign.

Modern interpreters of the Bible make Jesus Christ a liar. They say Jesus was crucified on Good Friday, buried about sundown the same day, and arose on the next Sunday about daybreak in contradiction to the Scriptures! Any schoolboy knows that this is only two nights and one day. If He were crucified on Good Friday and arose on Sunday morning as they say, then He did not literally fulfill the sign of Jonah. If He did not fulfill this sign as He promised the Jews, then He was an impostor and not the Messiah! In other words, Jesus Christ lied to the Jews about His burial and resurrection.

If the Good Friday theory is correct as some teach, then the Bible contains “highly figurative language” which requires a human interpreter to tell people what the verses really mean. By this same liberal method of interpreting the Scriptures you can destroy every basic doctrine in the Bible.

I do not care very much for what scholars say! But I am greatly concerned about not accusing my Lord of lying! Jesus Christ plainly said He would be in the grave “three days and three nights”. He emphatically declared He would rise again “after three days”. I believe He fulfilled the sign of Jonah and vindicated His Messiahship. In Matthew 28:6, we read this testimony of the angel at the tomb:

“He is not here: for he is risen, as he said.”

He said He would be in the grave “three days and three nights” and “after three days” He would rise again. Jesus did fulfill the Jonah sign. But He was not crucified on Good Friday, nor did He rise on Sunday morning!

The Part-of-a-Day Theory Wrong

Men, in order to get the Bible out of an embarrassing situation, allege that the Jews counted a part of a day as the whole day. Such passages as Genesis 42:17, 18; 1 Samuel 30:12, 13; Esther 4:15-17; 1 Kings 20:29; and 1 Chronicles 10:5 are cited to prove this theory. However, none of these passages prove “three days and three nights” means two nights and one day. Only one of them even contains the expression “three days and three nights” 1 Samuel 30:12. But there is absolutely no reason to give “three days and three nights” in 1 Samuel 30:12 any meaning except their literal meaning. Divine inspiration declares the young man “had eaten no bread, nor drunk any water, three days and three nights.” What authority has any man to contradict these plain words by affirming the time was not so long? The expression, “three days, night and day”, in Esther 4:15, is not the same wording as “three days and three nights” in Matthew 12:40. There is no mention of any nights at all in the other passages; therefore, they give no evidence as to the meaning of “three days and three nights.” There is no reason to take any of the passages cited in any sense except their literal sense, unless one has a theory to prove. The “three days and three nights” in Jonah 1:17 are to be taken in their literal sense.

Granting that some of the Jews did count a part of the day for a whole day, can it be proven that this is what Jesus meant? Can it be proven that the Jews counted a part of a day as a whole day and a whole night? Where is the proof in the inspired Word?

Yet, proponents of the Good Friday tradition want us to believe that a part of a day meant a whole day and a whole night. Men who believe the Bible to be literally true dare not accept such reasoning.

The Meaning of Day in the Bible

The word “day” in the Bible in its primary sense means the interval between dawn and darkness.

“And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night . . . ” (Genesis 1:5, Compare Genesis 1:14-18; 8:22.)

This is the first occurrence of the word “day” in the Bible, and the Lord God himself gives its meaning. Jesus believed there were 12 hours in a day. He asked in John 11:9:

” . . . Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.”

Jesus made a day and night consist of 24 hours. Can there be any higher authorities than the Lord God and Jesus Christ? Do not such authorities settle the matter for all true believers?

In the Bible a day is the interval of time comprising the period between two successive risings of the sun (Genesis 7:24; Job 3:16). The Hebrews reckoned it from evening to evening Exodus 12:18,

” . . . from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath” (Leviticus 23:32).

The 12-hour night began at sunset and ended at sunup. It was counted before the 12-hour day.

“And the evening and the morning were the first day” (Genesis 1:5).

Hence a new day began at 6 o’clock in the evening and lasted until the same time the next evening–a period of 24 hours–a 12-hour night followed by a 12-hour day!

The Good Friday Hoax

The Bible nowhere says or implies that Jesus was crucified and died on Good Friday! It is said that Jesus was crucified on

“the day before the Sabbath”, (Mark 15:42; Luke 23:54; John 19:14, 31, 42).

As the Jewish weekly Sabbath came on Saturday, scholars have assumed Jesus was crucified on Good Friday. This is poor reasoning because the Bible bears abundant testimony that the Jews had other Sabbaths beside the weekly Sabbath which fell on Saturday.

The first day of the Passover week, no matter on what day of the week it came, was always an annual Sabbath.

“And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread. In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein” (Leviticus 23:6, 7).

On the seventh day of this feast, the 21st of Nisan, was another annual Sabbath:

” . . . in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein” (Leviticus 23:8).

The day of Pentecost was an annual Sabbath Numbers 28:26. This is the reason we read about Sabbaths in the plural number in the Old Testament Leviticus 26:2, 34, 35, 43.

The Bible makes it plain, Jesus was crucified and buried on:

” . . . the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath” (Mark 15:42).

John tells us:

“And it was the preparation of the Passover” (John 19:14).

It was the preparation day on which the Passover Supper was made ready [editor's note: actually it was the preparation for the Holy Day, the Night to Be Much Remembered], the 14th of Nisan John 13:1, 29; 18:28. It was the preparation to keep the Passover Sabbath–the annual Sabbath which always came on the 15th day of the first ecclesiastical month. John 19:31 adds:

” . . . (for that sabbath day was an high day) . . . .”

Its greatness was due to the fact that it was the annual Sabbath of the Passover Festival.

Two Sabbaths that Week

Matthew makes it plain that two Sabbaths had passed since Jesus was crucified. The KJV has this rendering:

“In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre” (Matthew 28:1).

On this verse nearly all translators have allowed tradition to control their translation. It is not “Sabbath” but “Sabbaths” in the Greek text (the genitive case and the plural number). The verse properly translated would read:

“In the end of the sabbaths . . . .”

This allows for an annual Sabbath on Thursday and a regular Sabbath on Saturday.

When Jesus was buried near sundown on the day of the Passover,

“Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary”

watched the burial Matthew 27:58-61. Immediately after the burial, Luke says:

“And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on” (Luke 3:54).

This Sabbath was an annual Sabbath on Thursday. The day after the annual Sabbath the women bought spices, Mark 16:1. Luke tells us that the women, after preparing the spices on Friday,

” . . . rested the sabbath day according to the commandment” (Luke 23:56).

The traditional interpretation makes Mark and Luke contradict each other. In Mark 16:1 we are informed that the Sabbath was past when the spices were purchased. “Had” is inserted without any authority from the Greek text.

“No reason can be given for the variation–bought sweet spices. Not had bought” (An American Commentary on the New Testament, Vol. 11, p. 251).

In Luke 23:56 we are told that the women prepared the spices and ointments, and rested the Sabbath day. If Jesus lay in the grave on Sabbath only, Mark and Luke contradict each other. But if He lay there two Sabbaths having a work day between them, then Mark and Luke harmonize to perfection.

The Resurrection Late Saturday Evening

When does the Bible say that Jesus rose from the dead? The two Mary’s came to the tomb:

“in the end of the sabbath” (Matthew 28:1).

The Sabbath always ended at sunset:

“From even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath” (Leviticus 23:32).

Then they went to the tomb before sunset on Saturday. Jesus had risen from the dead before their arrival Matthew 28:1-8. According to the Bible, Jesus Christ arose before sunset on Saturday. Christ did not rise on Sunday morning, for the two Mary saw Him, heard Him speak, and held His feet just as the Sabbath ended and the first day of the week began.

“In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week . . .” (Matthew 28:1).

Mark 16:9 tells us Jesus first appeared to Mary Magdalene early the first day of the week, which was Saturday after sundown. The nearer after sunset this happened, the earlier in the first of the week it was. Mark does not say that she was alone at the time she first saw Jesus, and Matthew tells us that:

“the other Mary was with her” (Matthew 28:1).

The Date of the Crucifixion

Having shown from Matthew 28:1 that Jesus rose from the grave as the Sabbath ended at sunset and the first day of the week began, this would put the crucifixion on Wednesday at sunset just as the preparation day ended and the annual Sabbath commenced. According to the Gospel writers, Jesus died at the ninth hour (3:00 p.m. our time) and was buried about sunset that same day, Luke 23:44, 45, 50-54; Mark 15:33-38, 42-47.

If Jesus were buried at sunset on Wednesday and arose at sunset on Saturday, He fulfilled the sign of Jonah. He would have been in the grave Wednesday night, Thursday night, and Friday night–a full “three days”. All together a full “three days and three nights.” Thus we have a literal fulfillment of the words of Christ in Matthew 12:40. hence there is no need to follow Roman Catholic tradition which makes Jesus Christ a liar. Truly,

“. . . He rose again the third day according to the scriptures” (1Corinthians 15:4),

not the second day according to Roman Catholic tradition!

The Third Day

Some Scriptures speak of His resurrection

“after three days” (Mark 8:31; 9:31 R. V.; 10:34 R. V.; Matthew 27:63).

Other verses say

“three days” (Matthew 26:60, 61; 27:39, 40; Mark 14:58; 15:29, 30; John 2:19, 20).

Still others speak of

“the third day” (Matthew 16:21; 17:23; 20:19; 27:64; Luke 9:22; 18;33; 24:6, 7, 21, 46; Acts 10:40; 1 Corinthians 16:4).

Some make much over “the third day” in Luke 24:21, and they affirm that if the crucifixion took place on Wednesday, Sunday would be the fourth day since these things were done. But the answer is simple. These things were done just as Thursday was beginning at sunset on Wednesday. They were therefore completed on Thursday, and the first day since Thursday would be Friday, the second day since Thursday would be Saturday, and “the third day since” Thursday would be Sunday, the first day of the week.

So the supposed objection in reality supports the Wednesday crucifixion. But if the crucifixion took place on Friday, by no manner of reckoning could Sunday be made “the third day since” these things were done.

Unless we believe the Bible contains errors, we know that all passages must harmonize. Therefore, “after three days” must mean the same as “the third day” Matthew 16:21.

There is nothing in the Bible to favor the Good Friday crucifixion of Jesus Christ. The biblical record harmonizes with a Wednesday crucifixion and Saturday evening resurrection–a full 72 hours. This view allows for a literal interpretation of “three days and three nights.” It allows for the word “after three days” to mean just that. It proves that Jesus Christ fulfilled the sign of Jonah and thus proved His Messiahship to the Jews.

Written By: Milburn Cockrell

Paarsurrey says:

It is evident from the above that the Christians are in doubt about Jesus death on Cross. The difference is in almost every detail. The Catholics, Protestants believe that the incident of crucifixion happened on Friday; just to avoid a lot of questions as to why the funeral rites as per the Jewish custom were not performed if Jesus had died on the Cross. One may read my posthttp://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2008/09/08/actions-of-disciples-putting-wrappings-on-jesus%e2%80%99-body-testify-jesus-was-injured-but-alive-when-laid-in-the-tomb/in this connection.

Other Christians resort to believe that the incident happened on Wednesday.

I request the Christians to make the research in the issue sincerely and unbiased and to accept the truth where-ever it comes from.
Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

http://rpc.technorati.com/rpc/ping

Paul – a false witness of God- as he wrongly testified of God having raised up Jesus in consequence of Jesus’ death on the Cross

2008-09-09T20:31:00.000-07:00

allaboutjesuschrist.org say:

Jesus' Resurrection - Essential to the Christian Faith

Jesus' Resurrection from the dead is as essential to the Christian faith as His death upon the cross. Paul writes in his first letter to the Corinthians "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures" (1 Corinthians 15:3-4). Paul emphasizes the importance of the Resurrection with his statement "And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not" (I Corinthians 15:14-15).

http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/Jesus-Resurrection.htm

Promised Messiah 1835-1908 says:

It was necessary that Jesus should escape death on the cross, for it was stated in the Holy Book that whoever was hanged on the wood was accursed. It is a cruel and an unjust blasphemy to attribute a curse to an eminent person like Jesus, the Messiah, for, according to the agreed view of all who know the language, la'nat, or curse, has reference to the state of one's heart. A man would be said to be accursed when his heart, having been estranged from God, becomes really dark; when, deprived of divine mercy and of divine love, devoid absolutely of His Knowledge, blinded like the devil, he becomes filled with the poison of unbelief; when there remains not a ray of divine love and knowledge in him; when the bond of loyalty is broken, and between him and God there arises hatred and contempt and spite and hostility, so much so that God and he become mutual enemies; and when God becomes weary of him and he becomes weary of God; in short, when he becomes an heir to all the attributes of the Devil -- and that is why the Devil himself is called accursed.

It is clear that the significance of the word Mal'un, viz. accursed, is so foul that it can never apply to any righteous person who entertains love of God in his heart. Alas! Christians did not ponder over the significance of a curse when they invented this belief; else, it were impossible for them to have used such a bad word for a righteous man like Jesus. Can we say that Jesus' heart was ever really estranged from God; that he had denied God, that he hated Him and had become His enemy?

Can we ever think that Jesus had ever felt in his heart that he was estranged from God, that he was an enemy of God, and that he was immersed in the darkness of unbelief and denial? If, then, Jesus had never been in such a state of mind, that his heart was always full of love and the light of Divine Knowledge, is it for you, wise people, to ponder whether we can ever say that, not one, but thousands of curses from God had descended upon the heart of Jesus with all their evil significance? Never. Then, how can we say that he was, God forbid, accursed?

It is a pity that once a man has given utterance to something, when he has taken his stand upon a particular belief, he is not inclined to give up that belief, however much the absurdity thereof be exposed. Desire to attain salvation, if grounded upon true foundations, is a praiseworthy thing, but where is the sense in having a desire for salvation which kills truth and which countenances, regarding a holy prophet arid a perfect man, the belief that he had as it were passed through a state in which he had been estranged from God, and in which, instead of unity of heart and unity of inclination, there had been produced a strangeness and aloofness, enmity and hatred; and, instead of light, darkness had surrounded his heart?

Let it also be noticed that this not only detracts from the prophethood and apostleship of Jesus (on whom be the peace of God) but it is also derogatory to his claim to spiritual eminence, holiness, love, and knowledge of God, to which he has repeatedly given expression in the gospels. Just look through the Bible; therein Jesus clearly claims that he is the Light of the world, that he is the Guide, and that he stands in a relation of great love towards God; that he has been honoured by a clean birth, and that he is the loved Son of God.

How then, in spite of these pure and holy relations, can a curse, with all its significance, be attributed to Jesus? No, never. Therefore, there is no doubt that Jesus was not crucified, i.e., he did not die on the Cross, for his personality did not deserve the underlying consequence of death on the Cross. Not having been crucified, he was spared the impure implications of a curse, and no doubt it also proves that he did not go to heaven, for going to heaven formed part of this whole scheme and was a consequence of the idea of his having been crucified. Therefore, when it is proved that he was neither accursed, nor did he go to hell for three days, nor did he suffer death the other part of the scheme, namely, that he went to heaven, is proved to be wrong. On this point the Bible has more evidence which I proceed to state below. There is the statement of Jesus: 'But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee' (Matthew: chapter 26, verse 32). This verse clearly shows that Jesus, after he had come out of the tomb, went to Galilee and not to heaven.

Jesus' words 'After I am risen' do not mean his rising up alive after he was dead; rather, as in the eyes of the Jews and the common people he had died on the Cross, he used words beforehand consistent with what they were to think of him in the future, and indeed, the man who was placed on the Cross, in whose hands and feet nails had been driven till he had fainted from pain, had become as good as dead; if such a man was saved from such a calamity and if he recovered his senses it would not be an exaggeration on his part to say that he had come to life again. There is no doubt that after so much suffering, Jesus' escape from death was a miracle; it was no ordinary event. But to think that he had died is wrong.

Paarsurrey says:

The comments are welcome here; even of those who differ with me.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

http://rpc.technorati.com/rpc/ping

Is any Prophet who does not belong to the House of Israel, a liar?

2008-09-09T19:24:00.000-07:00

Promised Messiah 1835-1908 says:

Pure common sense cannot accept the proposition that God, the Lord of the Universe, Who illuminates the East and West alike with His radiant sun and quenches the thirst of every land with the universal bounty of His rain, should be so miserly (God forbid!) with regards to the spiritual needs of man as to become partial only to one country, one people and one language. I fail to understand what logic and rationale it is that God the Omniscient listens to man’s prayers and supplications and understands him in every language, and He is not displeased with it, yet He abhors to make His word descend upon hearts in any language other than Sanskrit, the language of the Vedas.

This philosophy is found only in the Vedas like a well concealed enigma which no one, as yet, has been able to resolve. Personally, I consider the Vedas to be absolved of ever having displayed such a philosophy upon any of its pages, which not only goes against common sense, but also blemishes God with the allegation of miserliness and niggardly conduct. The reality is that once a long time elapses after the revelation of a Divine Book, the followers of that Book, either out of sheer ignorance, or as a result of some ulterior motives—by mistake or by intent—feel free to annotate the Divine teachings. Because these annotators are of divergent views, so, with the passage of time, hundreds of denominations are born out of one.

It is also strange that just as the Aryas believe that revelation has only been confined to the Arya kith and kin and Arya faith, and that Sanskrit has been specifically employed by God as His own language, so too the Jews have similar views regarding the chosen Children of Israel and their Books. They believe that the only language of God is Hebrew and the institution of revelation has been confined to the House of Israel and its land. According to them, anyone who claims to be a prophet of God while he does not belong to this House and does not speak their language is (God forbid) definitely a liar.

Paarsurrey says:

The comments are welcome here; even of those who differ with me.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

http://rpc.technorati.com/rpc/ping

If the soldiers were asleep they could be very well asked how they came to know in their sleep that the corpse of Jesus had been stolen away

2008-09-08T22:30:00.000-07:00

I wrote today following post to: christchurch@christchurchreformed.com

Hi

I write further to my post dated 9/7/08:

Promised Messiah 1835-1908 Says:

It was the same body, with wounds on it, which had been saved from death; and, as there was still the fear of the Jews, Jesus, making use of all precautions, left the land. All talk of anything contrary to this is absurd — as the one about the Jews having bribed the soldiers in order to make them say that the disciples had stolen the corpse while they (the soldiers) were asleep.

If the soldiers were asleep they could be very well asked how they came to know in their sleep that the corpse of Jesus had been stolen away. From the mere fact of Jesus not being in the tomb, can anybody in reason believe that he had gone up to heaven? May there not be other causes as a result of which tombs might remain empty. At the time of going up to heaven, it was up to Jesus to meet a few hundred Jews, and also Pilate.

Whom was he afraid of in his glorious body. He did not care to furnish his opponents with the slightest proof. On the contrary, he took fright and fled to Galilee. That is why we positively believe that though it is true that he left the tomb, a chamber with an opening, and though it is true that he secretly met the disciples, yet it is not true that he was given any new and glorious body; it was the same body, and the same wounds, and there was the same fear in his heart lest the accursed Jews arrest him again.

Just read attentively Matthew, chapter 28, verses 7 to 10. These verses clearly say that the women who were told by someone that Jesus was alive and was going to Galilee, and who were also told quietly that they should inform the disciples, were no doubt pleased to hear this, but they went with a terrified heart, — they were still afraid lest Jesus might still be caught by some wicked Jew. The ninth verse says, that while these women were on their way to inform the disciples, Jesus met and saluted them. The tenth verse says that Jesus asked them not to be afraid, i.e. of his being caught; he asked them to inform his brethren that they should all go to Galilee22; that they would see him there, i.e., he could not stay there for fear of the enemy.

In short, if Jesus had really come to life after his death and had assumed a glorious body, it was up to him to furnish proof of such life to the Jews. But we know that he did not do this. It is absurd, therefore, to accuse the Jews of trying to render negatory the proof of Jesus’ coming to life again. No, Jesus himself has not given the slightest proof of his restoration to life; rather, by his secret flight, by the fact of his taking food, and sleep, and exhibiting his wounds, he himself proved that he did not die on the Cross.

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/ch1.html

Paarsurrey says:

I thank you for your resposnes/comments.

One should form one’s own unbiased opinion with research and should accept the truth where-ever it comes from.

My Christian friends are welcome for their comments; even if they differ with me.

Regards

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

--- On Sun, 9/7/08, White Munara wrote:

From: White Munara

Subject: Why and what for; So many wrappings on Jesus?

To: christchurch@christchurchreformed.com

Date: Sunday, September 7, 2008, 6:33 AM

Why and what for; So many wrappings on Jesus?

Hi

Kindly let the wrappings of Jesus tell the story if Jesus died a cursed death on Cross or he survived as he had earlier prophesised and he migrated from Jerusalem and went to the East to spread his teachings in the ten tribes of the house of Israel who were settled there.

The question to start with is; why Jesus was wrapped into in the first place? The wrappings speak that the persons who wrapped him were sure that Jesus had not died on the Cross.

A dead body needs no wrappings whatsoever.The body of a dead person is covered with a shroud that is the Jewish, Christian and Muslim tradition I think. The dead body is given a bath or washed and is wrapped into a shroud/s.The final funeral ceremony is held, and it is placed in the grave.

Please quote from some Jewish, Christian and Muslim sources if I am wrong.

1. When and where Jesus was given a bath or his body was washed.

2. Did the disciples ,who had fled away from the scene of crucifixion, were informed of the funeral ceremony? If not, why not?

3. Who lead the funeral prayer?

4. Was funeral ceremony held in Jewish tradition or Christian tradition? Christian tradition was invented later by Paul or his church unauthorized. Jesus had given no such tradition.

If those who were trusted with the body of Jesus did not participate or arrange the above; and we find no such recorded account in the four gospels, it is sure those who looked after his body knew that Jesus was not dead and hence they did not do it.

The injured body always needs wrappings after application of the ointments or medicines in the garb of fragrances.

I think the rest is very clear. Those who wrapped Jesus; they are the ones or their helping friends who are supposed to unwrap him. If they could put him in a tomb and placed a stone on the opining; they could help Jesus to push the stone away, unwrap him and let him go.

This is very reasonable. I think you agree with me.

I love Jesus and Muhammad.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

http://rpc.technorati.com/rpc/ping

Divine revelation and communication has not come to an end with Vedas or Bible

2008-09-08T03:04:00.000-07:00

Promised Messiah 1835-1908 says:

I have been blessed with communication from God for nearly thirty years, and He has shown at my hand hundreds of signs which have been observed by thousands of witnesses and have also been widely published in books and newspapers. Without exception, people from all denominations have witnessed one or another of the signs.

In the face of such repeated evidence, the teaching of the Arya Samaj, which is wrongfully attributed to Vedas, cannot be accepted, for it alleges that all Divine revelation and communication has come to an end with the Vedas. This Arya position is tantamount to believing that nothing is left of man’s belief but tales and legends. Consequent upon this dogma, they dismiss all the Divine scriptures that came after the Vedas as mere man-made fabrications.

They do this notwithstanding the fact that the Divine scriptures in question possess a greater and more potent proof of the Divine origin than the Vedas. The hand of God’s support and assistance is behind them and extraordinary signs from God bear witness to their truth. By what logic, then, are the Vedas termed the ‘Word of God’, while these other books are not?

The attributes of God are limitlessly profound and He lies hidden behind innumerable covers. Hence, dictates of wisdom require that He should not rely on one book alone for His manifestation. Rather, it is befitting for Him to choose His Messengers from all over the world in different countries, reflecting His glory through them by blessing them with His revelation and gift of communion. This is so that man, weak and credulous by nature, should not be deprived of the good fortune of responding to His call.

http://rpc.technorati.com/rpc/ping

Let the wrappings testify; Jesus was injured but alive when laid in the tomb

2008-09-07T20:18:00.000-07:00

Paarsurrey says:

Why and what for; So many wrappings on Jesus?

Hi

Kindly let the wrappings of Jesus tell the story of Jesus that he did not die a cursed death on Cross but he survived as he had earlier foretold to show Sign of Jonah. Jesus migrated from Jerusalem and went to the East to spread his teachings in the ten tribes of the house of Israel who were settled there; a primary mission of Jesus as he had also told.

The question to start with is; why Jesus was wrapped into in the first place? The wrappings speak that the persons who wrapped him were sure that Jesus had not died on the Cross.

A dead body needs no wrappings whatsoever.The body of a dead person is covered with a shroud that is the Jewish, Christian and Muslim tradition I think. The dead body is given a bath or washed and is wrapped into a shroud/s.The final funeral ceremony is held, and it is placed in the grave.

Please quote from some Jewish, Christian and Muslim sources if I am wrong.

1. When and where Jesus was given a bath or his body was washed.

2. Did the disciples ,who had fled away from the scene of crucifixion, were informed of the funeral ceremony? If not, why not?

3. Who lead the funeral prayer?

4. Was funeral ceremony held in Jewish tradition or Christian tradition? Christian tradition was invented later by Paul or his church unauthorized. Jesus had given no such tradition.

If those who were trusted with the body of Jesus did not participate or arrange the above; and we find no such recorded account in the four gospels, it is sure those who looked after his body knew that Jesus was not dead and hence they did not do it.

The injured body always needs wrappings after application of the ointments or medicines in the garb of fragrances.

I think the rest is very clear. Those who wrapped Jesus; they are the ones or their helping friends who are supposed to unwrap him. If they could put him in a tomb and placed a stone on the opining; they could help Jesus to push the stone away, unwrap him and let him go.

This is very reasonable. I think you agree with me.

I love Jesus and Muhammad.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

My Christian friends are welcome for comments; even if they differ from me.

http://rpc.technorati.com/rpc/ping

Pundits inflicted much pain upon Baba Nanak for praising Islam wherever he went

2008-09-06T18:42:00.000-07:00

Promised Messiah 1835-1908 says:

No doubt Baba Nanak was a great blessing from God for the adherents of Hinduism. You may deem him, if you please, the last avatar for Hinduism who endeavoured to eradicate the hatred which Hindus had for Islam. But it is tragic for this country that Hindu faith did not derive any benefit from this Divine blessing which came in the person of Baba Nanak. On the contrary, the Pundits inflicted much pain upon him for praising Islam wherever he went.

It was his mission in fact to bring Hinduism and Islam to a state of mutual peace. Unfortunately for this country, the followers of the Hindu faith paid no due attention to his teaching. If he and his pious teachings had been shown any respect, the Hindus and the Muslims would have become united by now. O grief that such a righteous man came into this world, remained with us and passed away, but the imprudent did not gain any benefit from his light!

In any case, he proved that the institution of revelation and communion never terminates and that the Divine signs of Allah always appear through the agency of His chosen ones and he stood witness to the fact that harbouring enmity towards Islam is tantamount to harbouring enmity towards the Divine light. Similarly, I can also, from personal experience, give testimony that the present age has certainly not been deprived of communication and revelation from God.

On the contrary, God still speaks as He used to speak and still hears as He used to hear. It is not that His eternal attributes have become inoperative.

Note from Poster:

Comments from Christians are also welcome; even if they differ with me

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Paul accepts the absurdity of Pauline/Christian faith; if Jesus did not die on Cross

2008-09-05T19:40:00.000-07:00

Paarsurrey says:

Jesus did not die a cursed death on Cross

And hence, therefore, there is no Jesus’ resurrection from the dead. The entire Christian myth is based on this belief. Our CatholicProtestant friends have rightly acknowledged the logic behind this in words of no less a person than Paul who happened to invent this theological philosophy at Rome when Jesus was alive but on his way to India; Jesus was in exile.

This point, that if there is no Jesus’ death on cross, there is no resurrection from the dead and divinity of Jesus gets falsifiedis well established by the following website:

http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/resurrection-of-christ.htm

And we quote:

“Resurrection of Christ - Establishing the Importance

The resurrection of Christ is the linchpin of the Christian faith — the historical event upon which Christian doctrine stands or falls. The apostle Paul makes this clear in his first letter to the Corinthians: But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is futile and your faith is empty. … For if only in this life we have hope in Christ, we should be pitied more than anyone (1 Cor. 15:13-14, 19).”

The things were like this till GodAllahYHWH revealed the truth on Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Quadiani 1835-1908 that Jesus son of Mary had died and that he was the PromisedMessiah. The Second Coming of Jesus has taken place in his person metaphorically, and no one else would be coming literally and physically.

With this he was informed of the arguments of Jesus not dieing on Cross; from Quran, NTBible, History, and Medical etc. The evidences already existed in these scriptures only these were hidden from the eyes. The PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 brought them into the light and now everyone could see them. In fact this is the doctrine on which rests the peace of the world. Jews, Christians and Muslim have stakes in it.

The PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 has explained himself the importance of Jesus not dieing on Cross in his book “Jesus in India”:

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/index.html

I have written this book, so that, by adducing proofs from established facts, from conclusive historical evidence of proved value and from ancient documents of non-Muslims, I might remove the serious misconceptions which are current among Muslims and among most Christian sects regarding the earlier and the later life of Jesus (on whom be peace) - misconceptions, the dangerous implications of which have not only injured and destroyed the conception of Divine Unity, but the unwholesome and poisonous influence of which has for long been noticed in the morals of the Muslims of this country. Spiritual maladies, i.e., want of good morals, evil thoughts, callousness, want of sympathy, are spreading among most Islamic sects, being the result of beliefs in unfounded stories and anecdotes of this kind. Human sympathy, pity and love of justice, humility and humble-mindedness - all good qualities - are disappearing day by day, as if they will soon bid a last farewell to this community.

This callousness and this immorality make many a Muslim appear no better than the beasts of the jungle. A Jain or a Buddhist is afraid of and avoids killing even a mosquito or a flea, but, alas! there are many among us Muslims who, while they kill an innocent man or commit wanton murder, are not afraid of the powerful God, who rates human life higher than that of all the animals.

What is this callousness and cruelty and want of sympathy due to? It is due to this - that from their very childhood, stories and anecdotes and wrong views of the doctrine of Jihad are dinned into their ears and inculcated into their hearts, the result being that gradually they become morally dead and cease to feel the heinousness of their hateful actions; nay, rather, the man who murders another man unawares and thus brings ruin to the murdered man’s family thinks that he has done a meritorious deed; or rather, that he has made the most of an opportunity to win favour with his community.

As no lectures or sermons are delivered in our country to stop such evils - and if there are any such lectures they have an element of hypocrisy in them - the common people think approvingly of such misdeeds. Accordingly, taking pity upon my own people, I have compiled several books in Urdu, Persian and Arabic, in which I have stated that the popular view of Jihad prevalent among Muslims, that is, the expectation of a bloody Imam, full of spite and hostility for other people, is a texture of false beliefs inculcated by shortsighted Ulema; otherwise, Islam does not allow the use of the sword for the Faith; except in the case of defensive wars, or in the case of wars waged to punish a tyrant or to uphold freedom.

The need of a defensive war arises when the aggression of an adversary threatens one’s own life. These are the three kinds of Jihad permitted by the Shariat, and, apart from these three kinds, there is no other kind of war which is permitted by Islam for the propagation of the Faith.

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/intro.html

The Christian friend are welcome to comment; even if they differ with me.

I am ah Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Deviant Paul invented Christian religious philosophy on Jesus death on Cross; unknown to Jesus

2008-09-05T19:15:00.000-07:00

Paarsurrey says:

There is no evidence based on secular history sources confirming that Jesus died a cursed death on Cross.

Needless to mention that Josepus was not alive in the time of Jesus to qualify for a firsthand testimony; more so, as the whole Christian mythology invented by Paul was based on this single point;unknown to Jesus himself.

The Christians please read the following excerpts on Josephus, the foremost source often quoted by Christians, to prove their point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus

Josephus on Jesus

There are two extant references in Josephus on Jesus, the one directly concerning Jesus has come to be known as the Testimonium Flavianum. These passages appear in The Antiquities of the Jews, written in the year 93 by the Jewish historian Josephus. All extant copies of this work, which all derive from Christian sources, even the recently recovered Arabic version, contain the two passages about Jesus. The authenticity of the Testimonium Flavianum has been disputed since the 17th century, and by the mid 18th century the consensus view was that it was a forgery. This conclusion was questioned in the 20th century and the intellectual controversy will probably never be resolved.

One of the earliest ecclesiastical authorities to condemn the Testimonium Flavianum as a forgery was Bishop Warburton of Gloucester (circa 1770). He described it as "a rank forgery, and a very stupid one, too." [27] Frank R. Zindler commented that Eusebius simply improved "the germ of the Testimonium (that) had already begun to infect certain Christian-copied versions of Antiquities of the Jews."
___________________________________________________________________________________________

The Christians friends are welcome for their comments; even if they differ.

Thanks

I love Jesus, Mary and Muhammad

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

cool water of mutual love needed to extinguish burning fire of thirst

2008-09-03T19:04:00.000-07:00

The Promised Messiah 1835-1908 says:

It is a common experience that calamities which cannot be averted by ordinary measures, and the difficulties which seem insurmountable, very often respond to the power of unanimity. Hence it would be against the dictates of wisdom for one to not benefit from the blessings of unanimity. The Hindus and the Muslims are two great nations inhabiting this country. It is hard to believe that either of the two, for instance the Hindus, would one day gain total domination over the Muslims, and turn them out of this country altogether.

Likewise, it is not possible for Muslims to expel the Hindus from their homeland. It should always be borne in mind that Hindus and Muslims are indispensable to each other in this country. If one is beset with a calamity, the other will inescapably share it. If either one intends to humiliate the other, out of egoistic pride or vanity, then it will not escape the consequent disgrace itself. And if anyone among them falls short of showing concern for his neighbour, then he too will suffer the ill effect of his callousness.

Anyone who contemplates annihilation of the other is like one who saws off the branch on which he is sitting. With the Grace of Allah, you have also got a measure of education; it behoves you now to eschew grudge and promote mutual love. Similarly, the dictates of your wisdom require that you abandon the course of callousness and adopt an attitude of compassion and sympathy. The hardship of this life is like unto a journey in a desert in the midst of summer on a hot sunny day. It would be futile to take this arduous journey without cool water. It is the cool water of mutual love which you so direly need to extinguish this burning fire and to save you from dying of thirst.

In precarious times such as these I invite you to truce, as reconciliation is urgently required by both nations. Many a calamity is befalling the world; there are earthquakes and there are famines. Over and above the earthquakes and famines we continue to be plagued by the bubonic pestilence.

Moreover the Divine revelations which God has conveyed to me further confirm that if people do not mend their evil ways and practices and do not repent their sins, the world will be further visited by other severe calamities. One misery will not end before another follows. Eventually people will reach the end of their tether and will wonder what is happening to them and what next is in store for them. They will be pushed to the edge of their senses by calamity upon calamity.
So take heed my countrymen, before such evil days confront you. It is highly essential that Hindus and the Muslims should come to terms with each other and if either of the two parties is guilty of such excesses as obstruct the path of peace; they are better advised to desist from pursuing that course. Otherwise, the entire blame for the sin of mutual enmity will be borne by the faulting party.

If someone questions the possibility of reaching reconciliation while religious differences are playing such a negative role, throwing hearts further apart; then my answer would be to say that difference in matters of religion can only play a negative role when it disregards the dictates of justice, wisdom and the well-tested human values.

It is to avoid this danger that man has been fully fortified with a clear sense of judgement and common sense. He should thus always carve a path for himself which never deviates from the path of justice and good sense. Again it should not violate the commonly experienced human sensibilities. Also it should be remembered that day to day petty differences cannot obstruct the course of reconciliation. Only those differences can destroy the process of reconciliation which result in insulting and blasphemous attitudes by one towards the revered Messengers and revealed holy books of the other.

The good news in all this for those who seek reconciliation is that all of the Islamic teachings are also found in the different parts of Vedic teaching. For instance, although the newborn branch of Vedic faith entitled Arya Samaj teaches that after the revelation of the Vedas, communication from God to man was sealed, the great avatars born in the Hindu faith from time to time, who have millions upon millions of followers in this country, have doubtlessly broken that seal by claiming to be recipients of Divine revelation. One such elect Divine representative, who is greatly revered in this country and Bengal, is known as Sri Krishna. He claimed to be the recipient of God’s Word and his followers not only believe him to be a Messenger but some consider him to be God personified. There is no doubt, however, that Sri Krishna was a Messenger and a representative of God in his time, and God conversed with him.

Likewise from among the Hindu people of the Latter Days, was one named Baba Nanak whose saintliness has become a byword in this country. His followers, the Sikhs, number no less than two million. Baba Sahib openly claims to be the recipient of revelation in the Janam Sakhis 1 and the Granth 2.

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Message-of-Peace.pdf

1. Autobiographies of Baba Nanak.

2. The Holy Book of the Sikhs.

True and Perfect God, to believe in Whom is essential for every person, is the Lord of all the worlds

2008-09-02T22:49:00.000-07:00

The Promised Messiah 1835-1908 says:

Impossible as it is, yet by way of argument let us assume that Jesus (peace be upon him) did claim to be God. In that case, for him to confine his beneficence to such a small circle as the House of Israel does not behove the magnanimity of God. Had he been God, was he God only for the House of Israel to the exclusion of all other nations? He is known to have suggested that he had no concern for those who did not belong to the House of Israel.

In short, the Jews and the Christians do believe that all Prophets and Messengers have been appearing from among them, and that Divine scriptures were revealed to them alone. Thereafter, according to the beliefs of the Christians, the institution of revelation and communion with God ended with Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) as though a seal had been set on the institution of revelation from God.

Unfortunately the Hindus of the Arya sect also entertain a similar belief. Like the Jews and Christians, who restrict the institution of Prophethood and Divine revelation exclusively to their people and deny the honour of Divine revelation to others, the Aryas also, unfortunately for the human race, have adopted the same doctrine. They too believe that the blessing of Divine communication was never bestowed to any people outside the domain of the Aryan race. Again it is India alone which, according to them, is exclusively blessed by God for the selection of the four ‘Rishis’ from its soil; it is Sanskrit alone, the language of the Vedas, which has always been the medium of instruction chosen by God. One can safely conclude from this, that both these nations do not consider God to be the Lord [Provident] of all the worlds.

Notwithstanding this, He is still proclaimed to be Lord of the Universe and not that of the Israelites or the Aryans alone. Moreover this strange behaviour of God, as presented by them, draws an image of God which is so partial that He appears unmindful of the rest of His creation. Thus, it is for the refutation of such erroneous views, that God commences the Holy Qur’an with the verse:

The Holy Quran : Chapter 1: Al-Fatihah
[1:2] All praise belongs to Allah, Lord of all the worlds,

God also made it clear in several places in the Holy Qur’an that His Messengers have been appearing in different lands all over the world.

In fact He did not neglect any people or any country. The Holy Qur’an explains through various examples that just as God has been looking after the physical development of the people of every country, in accordance with their requirements, so has He blessed every country and every people with spiritual upbringing. Allah says in the Holy Qur’an:

The Holy Quran : Chapter 35: Al-Fatir
[35:25] Verily, We have sent thee with the Truth, as a bearer of glad tidings and as a Warner; and there is no people to whom a Warner has not been sent.

Meaning that there is no people to whom a Warner has not been sent.

Therefore there is no question that the True and Perfect God, to believe in Whom is essential for every person, is the Lord of all the worlds. Furthermore, His providence is not confined to any particular people, age or country. In fact, He is the Lord of all peoples, the Lord of time and space, and He is the Sovereign of all the countries. He alone is the 5. All praise belongs to Allah, Lord of all the worlds.
Fountainhead of all beneficence and the Source of every physical and spiritual strength. All that exists is sustained by Him. He is the Support for every creature.

It is the universal beneficence of God which encompasses all peoples, all countries and all ages. It so happened lest anyone should have cause to complain that: ‘God has bestowed His favour upon such and such people, but not upon us.’ Or that: ‘So and so received the Book in order to be guided while we did not.’ Or that: ‘In such and such an age, He revealed Himself through His revelations, communications and miracles but in our time He remained hidden.’ Thus, by demonstrating His universal beneficence, He left no justification for such possible accusations. He displayed His virtues boundlessly so that no people remain bereft of physical and spiritual bounties from Him. He also did not treat any age as doomed.

So, when such are the attributes of our Lord, it is but befitting for us to acquire them ourselves. So, O compatriots!

This short epistle entitled A Message of Peace is being presented to you with all due respects and with a sincere heartfelt prayer that Almighty God may Himself inspire you and fill your hearts with trust in my sincerity, lest you misread this friendly gesture and consider it to be an attempt to gain some ulterior motive. Dear Countrymen! The matter of the Hereafter is very often obscured to ordinary people. Its secrets are known only to a few of the enlightened, who embrace a kind of death [for the sake of their Lord] before they actually die. The goodness of this world, on the other hand, is easily recognized by any man with vision and wisdom.
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Message-of-Peace.pdf

Had Jesus been God, was he God only for the House of Israel to the exclusion of all other nations?

2008-08-31T02:28:00.000-07:00

The Promised Messiah 1835-1908 says:

God commences the Holy Qur’an with the following verse which is contained in surah al-Fatihah:

The Holy Quran : Chapter 1: Al-Fatihah
[1:2] All praise belongs to Allah, Lord of all the worlds,

That is, all perfect and holy attributes belong exclusively to Allah, Who is the Lord of all the worlds.

The word ‘alam comprises all different peoples, all different ages and all the different countries. The commencement of the Holy Qur’an with this verse was designed to counter the views of such people as attempted to monopolise God’s unlimited providence for their own nation and imagined that the other nations did not belong to God or that having created these other people, God discarded them as being of no consequence, or else perhaps they were shelved to oblivion by Him, or (God forbid) they were not even created by Him.

To illustrate this further, we refer to the view of the Jews and the Christians, still commonly held by them, that all the Prophets and Messengers of God belonged only to the House of Israel, and that God completely ignored the religious and spiritual requirements of other people, as though He were displeased with them and that, despite finding them in manifest error and ignorance, He showed least concern for their spiritual welfare. As is also written in the Gospels that Jesus Christ (peace be on him) observed that he had been sent only for the lost sheep of Israel.

Impossible as it is, yet by way of argument let us assume that Jesusas did claim to be God. In that case, for him to confine his beneficence to such a small circle as the House of Israel does not behove the magnanimity of God. Had he been God, was he God only for the House of Israel to the exclusion of all other nations? He is known to have suggested that he had no concern for those who did not belong to the House of Israel.
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Matthew, 15:24)

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Message-of-Peace.pdf

I love Jesus, Mary and Muhammmad.

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

rising from medically dead only a Christian fiction

2008-08-28T22:53:00.000-07:00

TC ROBINSON Says:

Sat Jul 12, 2008

http://newleaven.com/2008/07/12/they-will-not-be-convinced-even-if-someone-rises-from-the-dead/

They will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.

paarsurrey says:

on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 8:26 pm

Hi

This may interest you.

Jesus did not die on Cross. Please don’t mind. In my opinion he survived death on Cross, as he promised to show sign of Jonah. And Jonah entered the belly of fish alive, remained alive in the belly of the fish and came out alive from the belly of the fish. Similarly Jesus entered the tomb where he was laid after he was delivered from the Cross, in a precarious condition but nevertheless alive. Jesus remained alive in the tomb and came out of it alive.

Since Jesus never died on the Cross, there is no question of his resurrection from the dead.

This has been proved by the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 from several arguments from the Quran, NTBible and the medical books and the history.

Second Coming has already taken place in the form of the PromisedMessiah1835-1908 as was prophesised in the scriptures.

Kindly visit my blogsite for your comments and/or discussions on the posts/pages there if you like. Differing opinions are also welcome.

I love Jesus, Mary and Muhammad.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

BelieverByFaith says:

on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 1:49 pm

This is in response to the comment by paarsurrey. I am not sure on why this idea is commended by many Non-Christians today. I feel, this is just an escape route to sway away from accepting the concept of resurrection.

History has verified the death of Jesus Christ and same are the tomb and clothes that embodied Christ. Additionally John 19:34, verifies that a Soldier pierced a side of Jesus “…bringing a sudden flow of blood and water”. This would have ensured the death on the cross and cannot be alive under any noted “precarious condition”.

Again, I am not sure on any authenticity to “Promised Messiah 1835-1908″ information. There are many who have made such claims and History doesn’t remember them anymore. It so happens that the entire History has a different view on Christ’s death and resurrection, against the view of my friend!

Paarsurrey says:

Hi my Christian friend, BelieverByFaith!

If you say that you believe that Jesus died a cursed deatg on Cross simply out of blind faith and because the biased Christian Church has made to belief you in this; this is understandable to me. But to say that history has ever had any evidence of Jesus dying on Cross; sorry, that is not there.

There is also no proof from secular history of anybody rising from the medically and physically dead. This is only a Christian fiction neither a fact nor a historical and medical reality.

There is no evidence of secular history in this regard. If you have any, please, present it here.

The evidence of secular history is against Jesus dying on Cross my friend.

I love Jesus, Mary and Muhammad.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Jesus in fact came to India

2008-08-27T20:05:00.000-07:00

Promised Messiah says:

Let it be noted that though Christians believe that Jesus (peace be on him) after his arrest through the betrayal by Judas Iscariot, and crucifixion -- and resurrection -- went to heaven, yet, from the Holy Bible, it appears that this belief of theirs is altogether wrong. Matthew (chapter 12, verse 40) says that just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the fish, so the Son of Man shall be three days and three nights in the bowels of the earth. Now it is clear that Jonah did not die in the belly of the fish; the utmost that happened was that he was in a swoon or a fit of fainting.

The holy books of God bear witness that Jonah, by the grace of God, remained alive in the belly of the fish, and came out alive; and his people ultimately accepted him. If then Jesus (on whom be peace) had died in the belly of the 'fish', what resemblance could there be between a dead man and the one who was alive, and how could a living one be compared with one dead? The truth rather is, that as Jesus was a true prophet and as he knew that God, whose beloved he was, would save him from an accursed death, he made a prophecy in the form of a parable, revealed to him by God, in which he hinted that he would not die on the Cross, nor would he give up the ghost on the accursed wood; on the contrary, like the prophet Jonah, he would only pass through a state of swoon.

In the parable he had also hinted that he would come out of the bowels of the earth and would then join the people and, like Jonah, would be honoured by them. So this prophecy too was fulfilled; for Jesus, coming out of the bowels of the earth, went to his tribes who lived in the eastern countries, Kashmir and Tibet, etc. viz. the ten tribes of the Israelites who 721 years before Jesus, had been taken prisoner from Samaria by Shalmaneser, King of Assur, and had been taken away by him.

Ultimately, these tribes came to India and settled in various parts of that country. Jesus at all events must have made this journey; for the divine object underlying his advent was that he should meet the lost Jews who had settled in different parts of India; the reason being that these in fact were the lost sheep of Israel who had given up even their ancestral faith in these countries, and most of whom had adopted Buddhism, relapsing, gradually into idolatry. Dr. Bernier, on the authority of a number of learned people, states in his Travels that the Kashmiris in reality are Jews who in the time of the dispersal in the days of the King of Assur had migrated to this country.

In any case it was necessary for Jesus (peace be on him) to find out the whereabouts of these lost sheep, who had, on coming to this country, India, become merged into the other people. I shall presently adduce evidence that Jesus (peace be on him) did in fact come to India and then, by stages, travelled to Kashmir, and discovered the lost sheep of Israel among the people who professed the Buddhist faith and that these people ultimately accepted him, just as the people of the prophet Jonah accepted Jonah. And this was inevitable, for Jesus had said in so many words that he had been sent to the lost sheep of Israel.

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/ch1.html

When you meet in a regular battle: Quranic verse

2008-08-27T01:05:00.000-07:00

The Holy Quran : Chapter 47: Muhammad

[47:5] And when you meet in regular battle those who disbelieve, smite their necks; and, when you have overcome them, by causing great slaughter among them, bind fast the fetters - then afterwards either release them as a favour or by taking ransom - until the war lays down its burdens. That is the ordinance. And if Allah had so pleased, He could have punished them Himself, but He has willed that He may try some of you by others. And those who are killed in the way of Allah - He will never render their works vain.

http://www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?ch=47

One should note always to understand a verse with its context. Sometimes people only mention a syllable and hence misunderstand the sentence. I would like such people to adopt the right approach and always read some versed before and after the verse they want to understand. That would be a wise and peaceful approach.

This verse mentions of Jehad in the way of Allah and its central theme. First it is mentioned that those tribes who had waged war againts the believers; they are to be subdued, arrested and and bound vigouriously but not harmed bodily; till such time that the war gets finished. When the war is finished then the Prisoners of War are to be released, after taking ransom if they could pay it; and if they cannot pay it even then they are to be set free without the ransom money on humanitarian basis, and that is appreciated and is considere a virtue.

Those who maintain that the concept of Islamic war is to convert others to Islam forcibly are totally wrong and their thinking is refuted here; this verse rejects their contention. This was the proper time when it should have been instructed to convert these POWs to Islam but there is no such instruction to do. This verse does not mention. On the other hand it rather says that they who had been subdued and arrested should be released, even if they don’t pay any ransom.

Now I give hereunder the verse in a connected context:

[47:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.

[47:2] Those who disbelieve and hinder men from the way of Allah - He renders their works vain.

[47:3] But as for those who believe and do righteous deeds and believe in that which has been revealed to Muhammad - and it is the truth from their Lord - He removes from them their sins and sets right their affairs.

[47:4] That is because those who disbelieve follow falsehood while those who believe follow the truth from their Lord. Thus does Allah set forth for men their lessons by similitudes.

[47:5] And when you meet in regular battle those who disbelieve, smite their necks; and, when you have overcome them, by causing great slaughter among them, bind fast the fetters - then afterwards either release them as a favour or by taking ransom - until the war lays down its burdens. That is the ordinance. And if Allah had so pleased, He could have punished them Himself, but He has willed that He may try some of you by others. And those who are killed in the way of Allah - He will never render their works vain.

[47:6] He will guide them to success and will improve their condition.

[47:7] And will admit them into the Garden which He has made known to them.

[47:8] O ye who believe! if you help the cause of Allah, He will help you and will make your steps firm.

[47:9] But those who disbelieve, perdition is their lot; and He will make their works vain.

[47:10] That is because they hate what Allah has revealed; so He has made their works vain.

http://www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?ch=47

One could see that the POWs are dealt with humanly and rationally as per the prevalent world conventions, rather better than that.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Jesus is not the same today

2008-08-26T20:14:00.000-07:00

My Christian friend richmaffeobooks said:

“This question of the Real Presence, for me, revolves around the concept of the timelessness of eternity. I look at it this way, from our perspective, Jesus died some 2,000 years ago. But from God's perspective (because He is outside time and space) Jesus is STILL on the cross, (and He has not yet gone to the cross), because time is not linear in eternity. Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever because He is outside of linear time.”

Paarsurrey said:

I think this must be your opinion only. JesusYeshuaIssa, as you know according to Holger Kersten, a German Scholar did not die on Cross but he died a natural and peaceful death in Sirinagar, Kashmir, India at the age of 120 years ( not 33 years as is commonly believed). Now he is resting in the heavens as did Moses, he died and got buried and now he is resting in the heavens.

Also now Jesus' Second Coming has taken place in the form of the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908, so in my opinion, relevance of all such ideas doesn’t remain valid.

You say "Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever because He is outside of linear time". Kindly give straight passages from OTBible in support of your this claim and also for the reason , if any.

Please don't mind, I respect your faith.

Thanks

Antother Cahtolic friend adrift said:

“If this were true, which it is not, it would make Jesus a liar.”

Quote:
“Also now Jesus' Second Coming has taken place in the form of the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908, so in my opinion, relevance of all such ideas doesn’t remain valid.

There is no such thing as reincarnation this cannot be true.”

”Opinion should be based on truth.”

Paarsurrey said:

Hi

I respect your faith. I don't blame you, but the common man in your faith has been made to believe certain things which are not actually there. For instance, Jesus was never put in a grave, but you believe that he was put in a grave where even a healthy man whether one was earlier put on Cross or not would die. Jesus did not get resurrected from a grave, as he was never buried in grave.

He was laid in a tomb, which was spacious enough to accommodate two/three persons, it had a bigger opening which could be termed as a door and a smaller one that could be termed as a ventilator so that Jesus does not get suffocated there. This seems to be well thought of secret plan of Pilate who had held Jesus innocent and did not want that he should be killed on cross. Nicodimus, the physician brought an unusual quantity of herbs (fragrances) which were ingredients of a miraculous ointment later known in the ancient medical books as Ointment of Jesus or Ointment of Disciples which were applied on his body. Jesus was laid unconscious in the tomb but with this treatment he got cured in due course of time; and that fulfilled the Sign of Jonah of which Jesus had prophesized. So that is perhaps the reality of the events, I think.

You have the right to differ with me and you are welcome.

Jesus' Second Coming 1835-1908 is not that his spirit has entered literally in the body of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the PromisedMessiah. This is not our concept, which would be much of a concept of Hinduism or Buddhism. Our concept is that as Jesus came into Judaism which were divided into many a cruel and hardened sects and Jesus was sent to soften them and unite them under his peaceful teachings, so is the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 to work for unity of faiths/denominations/religions of the world with peaceful means; well you can uderstand that this is not a smaller job.I think you agree with me. It is no difficult to understand.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful MuslimI am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Jesus is not the same today

2008-08-26T19:46:00.000-07:00

My Christian friend richmaffeobooks said:

“This question of the Real Presence, for me, revolves around the concept of the timelessness of eternity. I look at it this way, from our perspective, Jesus died some 2,000 years ago. But from God's perspective (because He is outside time and space) Jesus is STILL on the cross, (and He has not yet gone to the cross), because time is not linear in eternity. Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever because He is outside of linear time.”

Paarsurrey said:

I think this must be your opinion only. JesusYeshuaIssa, as you know according to Holger Kersten, a German Scholar did not die on Cross but he died a natural and peaceful death in Sirinagar, Kashmir, India at the age of 120 years ( not 33 years as is commonly believed). Now he is resting in the heavens as did Moses, he died and got buried and now he is resting in the heavens.

Also now Jesus' Second Coming has taken place in the form of the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908, so in my opinion, relevance of all such ideas doesn’t remain valid.

You say "Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever because He is outside of linear time". Kindly give straight passages from OTBible in support of your this claim and also for the reason , if any.

Please don't mind, I respect your faith.

Thanks

Antother Cahtolic friend adrift said:

“If this were true, which it is not, it would make Jesus a liar.”

Quote:

“Also now Jesus' Second Coming has taken place in the form of the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908, so in my opinion, relevance of all such ideas doesn’t remain valid.

There is no such thing as reincarnation this cannot be true.”

”Opinion should be based on truth.”

Paarsurrey said:

Hi

I respect your faith. I don't blame you, but the common man in your faith has been made to believe certain things which are not actually there. For instance, Jesus was never put in a grave, but you believe that he was put in a grave where even a healthy man whether one was earlier put on Cross or not would die. Jesus did not get resurrected from a grave, as he was never buried in grave.

He was laid in a tomb, which was spacious enough to accommodate two/three persons, it had a bigger opening which could be termed as a door and a smaller one that could be termed as a ventilator so that Jesus does not get suffocated there. This seems to be well thought of secret plan of Pilate who had held Jesus innocent and did not want that he should be killed on cross. Nicodimus, the physician brought an unusual quantity of herbs (fragrances) which were ingredients of a miraculous ointment later known in the ancient medical books as Ointment of Jesus or Ointment of Disciples which were applied on his body. Jesus was laid unconscious in the tomb but with this treatment he got cured in due course of time; and that fulfilled the Sign of Jonah of which Jesus had prophesized. So that is perhaps the reality of the events, I think.

You have the right to differ with me and you are welcome.

Jesus' Second Coming 1835-1908 is not that his spirit has entered literally in the body of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the PromisedMessiah. This is not our concept, which would be much of a concept of Hinduism or Buddhism. Our concept is that as Jesus came into Judaism which were divided into many a cruel and hardened sects and Jesus was sent to soften them and unite them under his peaceful teachings, so is the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 to work for unity of faiths/denominations/religions of the world with peaceful means; well you can uderstand that this is not a smaller job.I think you agree with me. It is no difficult to understand.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Of Christians being cut off from the tree of life

2008-08-26T06:58:00.000-07:00

Hi

Did Jesus receive Word from GodAllahYHWH or not?

If he received and he used to secure it, naturally; where is that? I am not talking about the NT; it was definitely added later, but it does not consist of Revelation, it is as our Christian friends say an inspiration at the most, if proved, and not Word from the mouth of God.

I don’t have to blame Catholics for the addition of six books (or some say it is 13 books) in the Bible; but it is what the Protestants or JWs and so many other Christian denominations hold.

Now some people insist that this warning of being cut off from the tree of life is only for the Book of Revelation and not for the whole NTBible or the whole OTBible+NTBible. I don't believe this as I can't find any other verse/s for the security of Bible from corruption except this lone verse, otherwise you know the JWs would have put up that before me when they visited me.They are very smart in this respect if you have any experience with them.

One of my Catholic friends has quoted a verse from the Bible to defend that the Catholic Bible is protected.

Here is the quote from the Bible that give the assurance to followers that the Catholic Churhc God will always protect the Catholic Church…. This includes the Bible as the Bible is a Catholic document.

And I also, I say unto thee that thou art Peter, and on this rock I will build my assembly, and hades' gates shall not prevail against it.” [Mathew 16:18]

Now this is clearly a case of circular argument. All Catholic documents were written after when Jesus disappeared from Galilee and went to India. There is no proof that Jesus ever said that to Peter.

Moreover the above quote does not specifically mention of the security of bible and its protection as does the quote of Revelation, I think one would agree with me in this respect.

So bible is not covered under the protection clause of Revelation, which is obvious even otherwise.

The quote also makes no mention of the Catholic Church. Does it? I think it is a guess of the Catholics only. The guesses never make facts. I would request my Christian friends to please mention a specific verse for protection and security of Bible from Bible OT&NT; otherwise it would be free for all the denominations to add or take out anything from the Bible.

I love Jesus and Mary.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Bible- mentions a partial account of Jesus' life

2008-08-26T03:26:00.000-07:00

I made following comments on the write-up on following blog:

http://thirsting4wisdom.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/inevitable/#comments

paarsurrey Says:

June 16, 2008 at 4:48 am

Hi

Peace

I respect your faith.

If you want that the people should know the truthful account of Jesus’ life and his teachings; I think it would be better to get introduced to the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 in whose metaphoric form the SecondComing has taken place, in my opinion.

You could happily differ with me.

Kindly visit my blogsite for interesting posts there and for a peaceful discussion if you like.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

thirsting4wisdom Says:

July 1, 2008 at 1:45 am

I’m not sure what you are referring to but I would like to know. I think that the best way to find out about Jesus is to go to the source and talk to Him one on one because He is alive. Most people have a hard time with that or aren’t sure if they can discern His voice so I would recommend going straight to Scripture instead of a commentary or other source. Reading the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) are an accounting of the life of Jesus by those who walked, talked, ate and lived with Him. That would be the best way to understand who Jesus was and is.

paarsurrey Says:

Hi thirsting4wisdom !

Jesus went in exile to India from Galilee after the event of Crucifixtion. Jesus died in Sirinagar, Kashmir, India; a natural and peaceful death. He did not take Matthew, Mark, Luke and John with him to India; so they cannot be a source of full account of Jesus’ life. Jesus is not alive today, so one cannot talk to him.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Catholic Church established its hegemony over the followers in the name of Jesus

2008-08-23T19:23:00.000-07:00

Hi

There are no specific verses of GodAllahYHWH in OT/NTBible protecting these books from additions or taking away something from them. So it was logical for the writer of Revelation to mention a warning in this regard, according to some, only to cover his book and not the rest of books collected together and bound in to be called NTBible.

So the authority of Church unless it would have been mentioned clearly in the revelation of GodAllahYHWH on Jesus in so many words seems vulnerable, and is, in my opinion, only a made up story by the Church to establish its hegemony over the followers. I think it is not more than that, and that might be the reason of Luther protesting against the abusive authority of the Catholic Church.

To sum up we could safely conclude that it is the CatholicChurch which gathered together all of the religious writings of the early Christians and decided arbitrarily which of those writing was inspired by God and they thought was just good for Christians to read.

If one person could make mistakes, then a group of persons could make as many mistakes as there are persons in that group, which could mean innumerable mistakes could be made by the ChurchPeople, so there remains neither a question of Revelation from God nor Inspiration from God from my point of view. The ChurchPeople are never innocent people, they are sinful persons like any other persons; they are not immune from sins, history is full of that. So, neither GodAllahYHWH is involved in this work, nor JesusYeshuaIssa.It is a weird thing indeed. I think it is for such reasons that the Protestants thought of registering a protest. I am clear about that.

But alas! In this Catholic and Protestant strife, the original Word of GodAllahYHWH revealed on JesusYeshuaIssa which he used to read himself has been lost altogether.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Jesus never added anything in Torah or took away anything from it

2008-08-22T23:57:00.000-07:00

Hi

In my opinion JesusYeshuaIssa was a subordinate ProphetMessenger of Moses and of his Book called Torah. JesusYeshuaIssa, therefore, never added and was not authorised to add anything in Torah or take away anything from Torah. Except for the words Jesus himself spoke, which are in fact in support of Torah. Almost all of what has been collected and bound by the Church and called NTBible and followed by the Catholics / Protestants, is in my opinion an addition to Torah or taking away something from Torah under one pretex or the other. Jesus is not responsible for all these made up things in his name.

Please stick to your own opinion, no compulsion.

I respect your faith.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Tree of Life of Christians; Catholics, Protestants, JWs and other 3000+ denominations

2008-08-21T20:58:00.000-07:00

Hi

Sometimes ago two JWs came to my house and told me that there had been no change in the Bible, it is impossible and opened before me following passage from the Urdu Protestant Bible (later I came to know that JWs don’t have their own Urdu Bible and hence they prefer to follow Protestant Version and not the Catholic Version): Revelation 22:18-19

18I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
unquote

Incidentally I had a Catholic Urdu Bible with me which I was studying very intently, and I was much impressed by the contents. I brought that and put that on the table. I said let us check both the versions, so we started checking the list of books given in the beginning. We came to know that there were some six books in the Catholic Urdu Bible which were not to be found in the Protestant Bible.

They became pale and upset and went away.

So the addition or diminution of the books; and besides that many verses and chapters suggest, please don’t mind, that perhaps both the Protestants and Catholics have been cut off from the tree of life in terms of the above verses of Revelation 22:18-19.

What is the remedy?

Can both the mainstream Christian denominations agree to a version which should be acceptable to both of them?

May GodAllahYHWH bless them!

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

The concept of inherited sin is only a Pauline misinterpretation

2008-08-20T20:13:00.000-07:00

The Muslim thinking on atonement is broad based and is not literally linked to the story of Adam and Eve as narrated by the Jewish/Christian scriptures:-

• All human beings are born innocent. After birth or more pertinently after the age when a person is mature enough to distinguish right from the evil, every person is responsible for his actions sinful or otherwise. If he repents before God for his sins and resolves before Him that he would not do it again; God in his mercy and in his sole discretion could pardon him. If God pardons then the person is like the one who has done no sin.

• All prophets -the perfect men; are innocent and not sinful and that is why they are chosen by God as His messengers to humanity (from Adam to Abraham to Moses to Jesus, from Krishna to Buddha to Muhammad) all prophets of God are respectful persons and innocent and not sinful.

My present submissions are not intended against the factual person Jesus s/o Mary -the perfect human being; but it is intended against the mythical Orthodox Christian faith who deify Jesus and present him as Son of God or God. This is solely done to bring such person to realize the points where they made the mistakes so that they could update their faith based on facts, scientific knowledge, reason and rationality.

I agree on many points with the views of certain moderate Christians who believe that God does not play favorites. He loves all His children equally. No just parent would hold their children accountable for what the children did not know .But unlike the orthodox Christians, the moderate Christians do not believe that people who are not Christians are condemned automatically.Their thinking is very close to the human psyche that has not changed much from the time of Adam to date.

To elaborate the point I present what Mirza Tahir Ahmad has stated on the issue:-

Muslims believe that all divine books are based on eternal truth and none can make any claims contrary to that. When we come across inconsistencies and contradictions in any so called divinely revealed book, our attitude is not that of total denial and rejection but that of cautious and sympathetic examination. Most of the statements of the Old Testament and the New Testament, which we find at variance with the truth of nature, we either try to reconcile by reading some underlying cryptic or metaphoric message, or reject part of the text as the work of human hands rather than that of God.

While Christianity itself was true, it could not have contained any distortions, unacceptable facts or beliefs giving a lie to nature. That is why we started not with the textual examination but with the fundamentals themselves, which through centuries of consensus have become indisputable components of Christian philosophy. Rudimentary among them are the Christian understanding of Sin and Atonement. I would much rather believe that someone, somewhere during the history of Christianity, misunderstood things and tried to interpret them in the light of his knowledge and misled the following generations because of that.

The reader must be reminded here that this concept of inherited sin is only a Pauline misinterpretation. It cannot be rightfully attributed to the teachings of the Old Testament. There is an over-whelming evidence t to the c contrary in many books of the Old Testament.

In the fifth century, Augustine the Bishop of Hippo; was involved in a confrontation with the Pelagian movement, concerning the controversy of the nature of the fall of Adam and Eve. He proclaimed the Pelagian movement as being heretical because it taught that Adam’s sin affected only himself and not the human race as a whole; that every individual is born free of sin and is capable in his own power of living a sinless life and that there had even been persons who had succeeded in doing so.

Those in the right were labeled as heretics. Day was denounced as night and night as day. Heresy is truth and truth heresy.

From the above, it becomes comfortingly clear that the concepts of Inherited Sin and of Crucifixion are based only on the conjecture and wishful thinking of Christian theologians at a later date. It is quite likely that it was born out of some pre-Christian myths of a similar nature, which, when applied to the circumstances of Jesus Christ, tempted them to read close similarities between the two and create a similar myth. However, whatever the mystery or paradox, as we see it, there is no evidence whatsoever that the Christian philosophy of Sin and Atonement was based on anything which Jesus might have said or done or taught. He could never have preached anything so contrary to, and so diametrically opposed to human intellect.

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/christianity_facts_to_fiction/index.html

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/revelation/index.html

http://www.alislam.org/

sincerely searching for the truth

2008-08-17T01:23:00.000-07:00

The advent of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was an epoch making event towards the end of the nineteenth century in the history of comparative religions in the present era.

Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, The Guided One (1835-1908), made it convenient for the human beings be of any race, color or creed to make comparative study of the Revealed Religions of the world and to accept the truth wherever one finds it. He set out many unbiased, neutral and full of wisdom principles for that purpose, the foremost among these is “The claim of a Religion on any topic as well as the logical argumentation should be from its Revealed Book”.

There may be a religion whose followers claim (e.g. Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, and Hinduism, Zoroastrianism or any other religion) that their religion or its teachings are for the whole world. ( i.e. it is international ), but the others may demand the followers of that religion to prove if this claim is explicitly mentioned in your Revealed Book and that if that claim has been supported by divine arguments in your Revealed Book.

This could be easily checked by anyone sincerely searching for the truth or guidance. If a religion on any of the important topics or human problems does not contain the relevant claim or argumentation / reasoning then that religion could be pronounced as a Dead Religion for all practical purposes. (One may remember here that all revealed religions in its origin were truthful; this fact has been highlighted by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad many a times and with great emphases)

We are more concerned with the present era – a dynamic scientific era; where we live in. The humanity is facing very complex problems which must be addressed by the Living Religion of the world if there is any utility in the religion worth the name; any denomination. The religion is for the common as also for the highly literate and since it is claimed to be divine, it should satisfy the common man as also the very literate special man.

The followers of a religion might be very clever and cunning that they could advocate for their religion and could attribute claims to a religion which re not explicitly found in its Revealed Book or they could provide arguments in its favor which are only man-made and not provided by the Divine.

In that case such a religion could be pronounced on its merit, at the most, to be a man-made religion, definitely not sent by God. This could be a litmus test. Verify your religion of your choice on these two simple but wise counts; you might be stunned to realize that many a religion are just myths and its followers are following it only blindfolded.

On his own part Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad set out this epoch making principle in an Inter-Religions Conference in the year 1896 and then he proved that the religion of his choice has claim and arguments on the five basic questions facing by humanity:-

• The Physical, Moral, and Spiritual States of Man.

• What is the State of Man After Death?

• The Object of Man's Life and the Means of its Attainment.

• The Operation of the Practical Ordinances of the Law in This Life and the Next.

• Sources of Divine Knowledge.

The conference had given these questions on which the participant speakers had to speak.

I leave the solutions to the respected readers. Try for the Religion of your choice. Best of luck!

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Bible 63,779 Cross-Reference Visualizations

2008-08-16T10:52:00.000-07:00

Hi

Thanks for visiting my blogsite (by jpmccusker> http://subluminal.wordpress.com/ http://subluminal.wordpress.com/author/jpmccusker/). I believe there has to be essentially no contradiction between Science and Religion; both seem to be complimentary and not contradictary of one another.

There is no contradiction in Religion and Science; as both are modes of human virtual travel into the unseen realm in a sense; the later in the physical and secular realm only while the earlier goes deep in the meaning, purpose, characteristics, attributes, morals and spiritual. They are complementary not contradictory. One is the Word of GodAllahYHWH while the other is Work of Him. Both created by Him. If we fall short of at times understanding the Work of God, the same way we may misunderstand the other; the fault is always on our side as to err is human, and to shift it on the side of GodAllahYHWH would be naturally inhuman.

What is the cure to this scenario? Just to improve our understanding with the available appropriate tools in the relative realm. With more experiments and experiences we could improve and photo-finish our understanding.

Maybe what we consider as a scientific reality as laymen, is not a scientific reality in the eye of RealScientists; it is an idea, an opinion, a hypothesis, or a theory not yet ripe enough to be a law on merit; so naturally it should not correspond with the Word of GodAllahYHWH.

Human error could play havoc with the Word also. A priest, the fake one of course, may not and must not be able to understand the Word correctly so it would not and must not match with the ScientificLaws, resulting into an apparent ambiguity, which is not there in reality, it is our own personal or collective illusion for the most part.

This is what I think. Your opinions/comments are welcome.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

About Subluminal

Science is, above anything else, a human endeavor. The best of science writing shows this, and the humanity of the authors and subjects shows through. Too much of science that is learned in the classroom sets itself apart from this. Brilliant jokesters are given a veneer of respectability so that we aren’t biased by their common decency. This is good, but it also takes the passion out of one of the most passionate endeavors we can conduct. So, this blog is going to be as well-written as we can manage, express the humanity and energy that exists in the fields that we will talk about, and try to be entertaining and engaging. We will talk about good science (with a view to promoting it) and bad science (with a view to improving it).
Let’s see how this goes.

Please view their post titled: “Cross-Reference Visualizations”:

Bible Cross-References: The bar graph that runs along the bottom represents all of the chapters in the Bible. Books alternate in color between white and light gray. The length of each bar denotes the number of verses in the chapter. Each of the 63,779 cross references found in the Bible is depicted by a single arc - the color corresponds to the distance between the two chapters, creating a rainbow-like effect.

This is a pretty cool visualization of bible cross-references that was developed by Chris Harrison to show bible cross references throughout the length of the bible. I can’t help but think of how interesting this could be for genome visualization: the cross references could be based on genes that are transcription factors for other genes. (activate or deactivate those genes). Chris has lots of other fascinating visualization projects to look at, and is very stimulating to browse it.

August 15, 2008 - Posted by jpmccusker Science, Visualization cross-references, religion, Visualization http://subluminal.wordpress.com/author/jpmccusker/
http://www.chrisharrison.net/projects/bibleviz/index.html chris.harrison@cs.cmu.edu

Jesus cannot atone possibly

2008-08-15T23:16:00.000-07:00

The atonement and the related issues have been discussed by Hazrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad and analyzed as under:-

How could Jesus be born innocent when he had a human mother? If the sin of Adam and Eve had polluted the entire progeny of this unfortunate couple, then as a natural consequence, all male and female children must inherit the same genetic propensity to sin.

Females were perhaps more likely to because it was Eve who as the instrument of Satan enticed Adam. Therefore, the responsibility of sin falls squarely on the shoulders of Eve rather than of Adam.

In the case of the birth of Christ, obviously it was a daughter of Eve who contributed the major share. The question that very powerfully arises is whether Jesus inherited any gene bearing chromosomes from his human mother or not. If he did so, then it was impossible for him to escape the inevitable inherited sin. If he did not inherit any chromosomes from his mother either, then indeed that birth would be doubly miraculous.

Only a miracle could produce a son who neither belongs to his father nor to his mother. What remains incomprehensible is why those chromosomes, provided by Eve, did not carry the innate tendency to sin to the child Jesus.

Suppose it happened somehow, and Jesus had that innocence needed to carry the sins of mankind, on condition that they believed in him and not otherwise, another problem would arise: what happened, one may ask, to the progeny of Adam and Eve that died before the dawn of Christianity? How many billions of them might have got scattered throughout the world over five continents generation after generation. They must have lived and died without hope or even the possibility of ever hearing about the Christ their Saviour who was not yet born.
In fact the entire humanity between Adam and Christ seemed certainly to be doomed for ever. Why were they never given even a remote chance to be forgiven? Would they be forgiven retrospectively, by Jesus Christ? If so, why?

In other parts of the world, much larger by comparison to the tiny land of Judea, where people had never heard of Christianity even during the life time of Jesus Christ, what happens to them? They never did, nor ever could, believe in the ‘Sonship’ of Jesus Christ. Will their sins go unpunished or will they be punished? If they go unpunished, for what reason? If they are punished, again by what logic? What chance did they have anyway? They were totally helpless. What a distorted sense of absolute justice!

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/christianity_facts_to_fiction/index.html

Jesus for Jews; not for Christians - the gentiles

2008-08-15T13:12:00.000-07:00

Paarsurrey says:

Hi Bud Press!

Thanks for your remarks on my above comments. Sorry, I don't agree with your following points mentioned by you.

“Jesus Christ died for you on the cross (Romans 5:6-9).”
“Salvation and eternal life cannot be obtained through world religions such as, Animism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, or cults such as Jehovah’s Witnesses or Mormonism. Your salvation and eternal welfare rests in the Jesus Christ of the Bible.”

Firstly, Jesus never died a cursed death on the Cross, in my opinion; and secondly, there is no relationship between the sins one commits and the death of a third person for the sins of another person.

Maybe you like to read my following posts in this connection:

http://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/wp-admin/post.php?action=edit&post=163
http://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/wp-admin/post.php?action=edit&post=67

I love Jesus, Mary and Muhammad

Regards

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

In response to remarks of of our friend Bud Press dated August 15, 2008 at 9:22 am
http://kimolsen.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/discerning-gods-word-study/

“Jesus Christ died for you on the cross (Romans 5:6-9):”

“Salvation and eternal life cannot be obtained through world religions such as, Animism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, or cults such as Jehovah’s Witnesses or Mormonism. Your salvation and eternal welfare rests in the Jesus Christ of the Bible:”

a virgin can give natural birth to a human son

2008-08-14T07:06:00.000-07:00

Jesus s/o Mary was born without a father. This fact has perplexed many a persons, with the result that some have even resorted to deifying him and believing that he was Son of God or God, just because of this unusual but natural birth. In fact, as per their own belief, based on OT, Adam was also born not only without a father but even without a mother, if unusual birth of Jesus makes him Son of God or God ,as they say mere in superstition and myth , then they should deify Adam logically double-fold and also deify Eve double-fold . Now if we admit this logic there have become two sons of God and one daughter of God and if as they say that Jesus was a perfect man and perfect God, we shall have 3 Gods+ two Sons of God one Daughter of god; and that would be without having wife by God and all these human beings would become perfect humans and also perfect God as the logic goes.

But this is all illogical, as in Old Testament Son of God etc is mentioned only metaphorically and symbolically; meaning thereby the most loved ones by God having some authority from God as Adam was made by Him on his image i.e. like Him. Since Jesus followed Torah so he clearly spoke of the usage of OT, if and whenever he spoke these words.

Then the matter of born ;without a father does not end there, there are at least two other instances quoted by history in this regards which tell s that Changes Khan was also born of a Virgin and a Chinese Monarch who founded a dynasty was also born of a Virgin; these Virgins also had dreams more oo less of similar in nature to that of Mary; that they would give birth to sons without a father.

But that is of folklore and/or from the sources of history; and not based on scientific research or scientific study. Here we mention a scientific study/research whereby the possibility of virgins giving births to sons is discussed, as mentioned by Mirza Tahir Ahmad:

So how was Christ born?

We understand that research on the subject of single mother birth without the participation of a male is being carried out in many advanced countries of the world. But so far human knowledge is only at a stage where scientific research has not yet advanced to such a level where positive irrefutable evidence of virgin births in human beings can be produced. However, all sorts of possibilities remain open.At lower orders of life two phenomena are scientifically well established:

Parthenogenesis and Hermaphroditism.

As such, the miraculous birth of Jesus, to Mary, can be understood to belong to some similar natural but very rare phenomenon, the peripheries of which are not yet fully fathomed by man.Here follow brief descriptions of the phenomena of Parthenogenesis and Hermaphroditism. Parthenogenesis - This is the asexual development of a female ovum into an individual, without the aid of a male agent. It is observed among many lower forms of life such as aphids and also fish. There is also evidence that parthenogenesis can be a successful strategy among lizards living under low and unpredictable rainfall conditions.

In laboratory conditions, mice and rabbit embryos have been developed parthenogenetically to a stage equivalent to halfway through pregnancy, but have then been aborted. In recent study, human embryos could be activated occasionally by parthenogenesis using calcium ionophore as a catalyst. Such research raises the prospect that some early human pregnancy losses may have involved the parthenogenetic activation of the embryo.

Hermaphroditism -This term applies when organs of both sexes are present within a single female and the chromosomes show both male and female characters aligned side by side. Laboratory tests have revealed cases such as that of a hermaphrodite rabbit which, at one stage, served several females and sired more than 250 young of both sexes, while at another stage, became pregnant in isolation and gave birth to seven healthy young of both sexes. When autopsied, it showed two functional ovaries and two infertile testes while in a pregnant condition.

Recent studies suggest that such a phenomenon is possible, rarely, among humans also.Please don’t mix up with paradoxes, God could create whatever he pleases, but for that He needs no wife. Creations of every thing physical and spiritual in the Universe, God just created these things, simple as that, but of course without a partner or wife.
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/christianity_facts_to_fiction/index.html

I don't think there is any logical or rational reason of creating a god out of a human being like Jesus.

The truth about NTBible ,

2008-08-12T03:04:00.000-07:00

Paarsurrey Says:
Hi

The truth about NTBible is that:

1. JesusYeshuaIssa did not leave the Word of God or anything in writing revealed on him from GodAllahYHWH in the form of stone tablets as was in the case of Moses.

2. Or anything written by JesusYeshuaIssa himself as a biography when he left from Galilee, after the incident of Crucifixion, alongwith his mother Mary in search of the lost ten tribes of the house of Israel, he died natural and peaceful death in Kashmir, India.

3. Jesus left nothing behind authenticated by him, in possession of the Church, as there was none in existence.

4. We do respect the NTGospels which have account of Jesus life, but it does not have much utility for a non-Catholic except that we may treat it as a book of history subject to scrutiny, internal as well as external, for each bit of event for finding truth in it on merit.

There are about 120+ writers who wrote a sort of history books about the time of Jesus, that could be logically accepted as a historical source and truth could be searched out of it like we do from other sources of history on merit of each bit of event unbiased. All these 120+ books must be treated at par but unfortunately some have been selected by the clergy and are known as NTBible while others have been discarded. This shows their bias.

The historians should come forward and sift the material for truth, if found, on equal footing from all of these 120+ books, with reason, rationality and valid arguments acceptable to the whole world, as these are claimed to be Universal by our Protestant/Catholic friends.

I respect your religion but I think I could form my own opinion freely. My Christian friends may remain steadfast on what they believe, no compulsion, and that is their own free will.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

The above comments made by paarsurrey on the blogsite of > http://christian-blog.org/ on the article titled “OH, HOW IMPORTANT IS MY BIBLE? The most important book in our lives” written by Pastor Tom Tennant, Vision Baptist Church, Jackson, Ohio. It was displayed on the blogsite that “Your comment was successfully added.”, however the same has not been displayed and moderated by them later. I don’t mind, it is their discretion.
http://christian-blog.org/index.php?/archives/78-OH,-HOW-IMPORTANT-IS-MY-BIBLE-The-most-important-book-in-our-lives.html

Was Kashmir last destination of Christ?

2008-08-07T13:29:00.000-07:00

I just want to familiarise the viewers of this blog with some research continuing in different parts of the world and among followers of different religions on the issue of “Jesus did not die a cursed death on Cross but he died in India”.

This one is with the courtesy of: AsiaTtribune:http://www.asiantribune.com/?q=node/9291
For public benefit.

Was Kashmir last destination of Christ?

Sat, 2008-01-26 03:08By J. N. Raina - Syndicate Features

Did Jesus Christ die on the cross? Or did he migrate to Kashmir after his crucifixion, and lived there till his ripe age of 125? This belief, prevalent in Kashmir for ages, led to the influx of over 1600 Israeli tourists to the terrorist-infested valley last summer. Their main attraction: graves of Christ and Moses. The inquisitive tourists— ignoring the caveat, issued in Jerusalem recently on Jammu and Kashmir— flocked to the valley to see the tomb of Christ at Rozabal , Srinagar, and of Moses near Bandipore town in north Kashmir.

Numerous books have been published on Christ, some of them claiming that Jesus Christ had visited the land, which later came to be known as Kashmir, or Cashmire, its ancient name. Researchers have suggested that Jesus lies buried at Rozabal.

Aziz Kashmiri, a Srinagar-based editor of Urdu daily ‘Roshni’, has in his book “Christ in Kashmir” claimed that Kashmiris’ ancestors were one of the lost tribes of Israel, and that Jesus died in Kashmir. He has quoted numerous authors and scholars to prove his point that Christ had died in Srinagar. Aziz , who was my journalist colleague in Srinagar, before I migrated to Mumbai in 1990, had told me that his 30 years of research work on the subject had led him to believe that Christ did not die on the cross as stated in the Bible. ‘In fact, he had recovered from his wounds and fled from Palestine to Kashmir, until he died at the age of 125 or so’. This belief, however, is not corroborated by the Quran. People in general do not buy this theory.

The tomb lies in Srinagar in an underground room. There is also a black stone in a corner, which is said to have the signs of the foot- prints of Christ. A similar stone exists in Jerusalem. In October 1967, Muhammad Zafrullah Khan, the then judge of the International Court of Justice, during his speech in Toronto (Canada) said Christ did not die on the cross, but had fainted and thereafter migrated from Palestine to Kashmir via Afghanistan. “He died there and was buried in Srinagar”, he said, arousing interest of the world media.

Some other authors have made similar claim as quoted by Aziz, that the lost tribes of Jews had made their way to Kashmir and settled there. Moses also lies buried in Kashmir. Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, founder of the Ahmadiyya movement, revealed in 1890 that Christ did not die on the cross. He has written a comprehensive book ‘Izalah Auham’ and quoted from the Bible and the Holy Quran, saying that Christ escaped the ‘accursed death’ on the cross and set out secretly from Palestine in search of the lost tribes of Israel.

Quoting ancient scriptures, Ghulam Ahmad says “History bears evidence that in 721 BC, Sargon II captured the kingdom of Israel. The Jews were captured and exiled. Most of them went to Iran and Afghanistan and some of them went to India to settle in Kashmir. Jesus Christ, in order to fulfil his ‘divine mission’, visited them and finally at the age of 125 died in Kashmir”.
Evidence from the Buddhist sources has established that Christ came to India to fulfil the prophecy of Lord Buddha that after 500 years of his nirvana, ‘another Buddha would come and revive his true teachings.” In 1899, Khalifa Noor al-Din of Jalalpur (Gujarat), who had lived in Kashmir, pointed out that there existed in Srinagar a tomb of a Prophet, Yus Asaf or ‘ Isa Sahib’, who came to Kashmir from a foreign country.

Aziz Kashmiri quoted Hazrat Mirza as saying in his book “Masih Hindustan main” that evidence is available on Christ’s escape from the death on the cross and his travel towards Eastern countries. Mirza has evaluated evidence from more than 33 books of Materia Medica, that carry formula of ‘ marham-i-Isa’ ( Jesus ointment) and shows it was the same ointment which was applied to the wounds of Christ ,caused by nailing him on the cross.

Historian Muhammad Din Fauq, author of many books on Kashmir, has said that ‘in Kashmir, Malik tribe is in majority. They are Bani Israel. Their great ancestor was Qasis, who was ancestor of Afghan tribe, a contemporary of Prophet Muhammad. According to Bernier, there are many marks of Judaism to be found in Kashmir.’ The inhabitants in the frontier villages struck me as resembling Jews’.

According to the ‘Encyclopaedia of America’, Dr Gibs Felentener (1548-1611) has identified Tartars with the lost ten tribes. Dr Froncios Bernier ( 1620-1688 ) speculates on the Kashmiris as descendents of the lost ten tribes, from certain customs and rites, and prevailing type of facial features, as also of the Afghans and the Tajiks of Badakshan being distinctly Hebraic’The tomb of Moses is located on a mountain called ‘Booth’ in Bandipore. According to Aziz, the Bible confirms the fact that Moses passed away in Bandipore, which was known as Bethpoer in olden days. Prophet Jacob, says Bible, was called Israel by God, due to his bravery.

“Thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name” (Genesis, 35:10). Prophet Jacob had 12 sons: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, Benjamin, Dan, Nephtali, Gad and Asher (Genesis, 35:23-26). They became the founders of 12 tribes of Israel, who are called Bani Israel (sons of Israel) or the ‘chosen sons of God’. They spread rapidly in Egypt, Syria, Palestine and other parts. But when cruel kings, including Nebuchadnezzar (597 BC) invaded, killed and enslaved them, only two tribes remained in Palestine and other ten were forced to migrate from Palestine. Some settled in Afghanistan, others in Balakh, Bukhara and Tibet and most of them reached North India through Central Asia and settled in Kashmir.

According to Pandit Hargopal Koul’s ‘Guldasta-I-Kashmir’, Kashmiri Pandits are the highest class of Aryans. Pandit Ram Chand Kak, former prime minister of Jammu and Kashmir during Maharaja Hari Singh’s rule, ‘Moses is a very common name in Kashmir…. There are many castes and tribes among Muslims and Hindus, which are mentioned in the Bible. Their ways and habits, features, shapes, morals, and character resemble those of Israelis. At Bijbehara near Anantnag town, there is a stone called ‘ka ka pal’ (ka in Kashmiri means eleven) resembling eleven tribes of Israel. Such a stone is also at Baramulla.

Civil servant turned writer -Kashmiriologist, Pervez Dewan, in his latest book, comments: “There can be no doubt that Jews used to visit ancient pre-Islamic Kashmir at the rate of one or two visitors a year. They were particularly honoured guests. This explains their stamp on some aspects of Kashmiri life. Some of them must have settled in Kashmir and accepted Hinduism (and later Islam). That explains why some Kashmiris have the ‘prominent noses’ that have intrigued European travellers so much.” His study also highlights Hebrew words in the Kashmiri language and makes a pointed reference some Jewish customs, food habits and beliefs found in Kashmir.

On the specific question - about the visit of Lord Jesus and Prophet Moses, Dewan banks on the manuscripts of the Bhavishya Maha Puran, Mullah Nadiri’s Tareekh-e-Kashmir and an ancient Buddhist manuscript in the Hemis caves in Ladakh. “If these documents have not been tampered with, then there can be no doubt but that Lord Jesus had lived for at least a while in Kashmir and Ladakh,” he concludes.

According to St Mark, there are discrepancies in the Gospels about the hour when Jesus was crucified. “Jesus did not die on the cross, as is the popular belief, but in fact he had fainted. The evidence which points to this are the Gospels, all of which stated that Jesus was taken down from the cross at the 9th hour, for the other day was Sabbath day. In those days, bodies could not remain on the cross on Sabbath.”

The historians of those days are a witness to the fact that no one died on the cross within such a short time, but normally were left to suffer for many days”, says Aziz.” When Jesus was taken down from the cross, he was actually dead faint, and people thought he was dead. “What happened afterwards is simple…..he was taken to a cave-like structure where he was rubbed with Marham Isa, an ointment to heal wounds, which is still in use. When he recovered, some three days later, he was disguised as a gardener (the same gardener Mary saw) as his friends were afraid that Pilate would see him and realize that he was really alive.

Jesus did escape from his enemies and he was eventually given shelter at another place, of which a complete description is given. Kashmir is the only place which fits in that description. According to the Quran, “there he lived, carried on his preachings and died.” A group of German scientists had carried out investigations regarding the shroud of Christ. The outcome of the research has shown that 2000 year old shroud of Christ has been found in the Italian town of Turin. They made their discovery known to the Pope then, but he reportedly said nothing.
Thomas was the twin brother of Christ (Dictionary of Bible by Hastings, Vol IV, 753, also John 20:24). Thomas in Hebrew means twin. This very person, whose name in Ikmal al-Din, Arabic history, written some 1000 years after, appears as Babad (which also means a twin) buried Christ after his natural death.

Avatar Meher Baba too asserts in his discourses that Jesus had visited to Kashmir valley and that after the crucifixion the body of Jesus was brought to Kashmir for burial.
Kashmir’s first written historical work ‘The Rajatarangini’ has also referred unambiguously to a Christ-like seer who was crucified by a Herod-like king and who lived in and ruled over Kashmir, possibly in the 1st century AD. In any case, there’s an enormous amount of circumstantial evidence that indicates that Jesus and Moses might have come to Kashmir.
- Syndicate Features -
Unquote

The viewers/readers should form their own opinion and accept truth when satisfied.

Thanks

paarsurrey

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Why and what for; So many wrappings on Jesus?

2008-08-07T06:20:00.000-07:00

My Christian friend gavmbree Says:

“3. How did Jesus unwrap himself in the tomb, push the rock away, and then fight the guards outside of the tomb?”

Paarsurrey Says:

Hi

Kindly let the wrappings of Jesus tell the story. The question to start with is; why Jesus was wrapped into in the first place? The wrappings speak that the persons who wrapped him were sure that Jesus had not died on the Cross. A dead body needs no wrappings whatsoever.The body of a dead person is covered with a shroud that is the Jewish, Christian and Muslim tradition I think. The dead body is given a bath or washed and is wrapped into a shroud/s.The final funeral ceremony is held, and it is placed in the grave.

Please quote from some Jewish, Christian and Muslim sources if I am wrong.

1. When and where Jesus was given a bath or his body was washed.

2. Did the disciples, who had fled away from the scene of crucifixion, were informed of the funeral ceremony? If not, why not?

3. Who lead the funeral prayer?

4. Was funeral ceremony held in Jewish tradition or Christian tradition? Christian tradition was invented later by Paul or his church unauthorized. Jesus had given no such tradition.

If those who were trusted with the body of Jesus did not participate or arrange the above; and we find no such recorded account in the four gospels, it is sure those who looked after his body knew that Jesus was not dead and hence they did not do it.

The injured body always needs wrappings after application of the ointments or medicines.
I think the rest is very clear. Those who wrapped Jesus; they are the ones or their helping friends who are supposed to unwrap him. If they could put him in a tomb and placed a stone, they could help Jesus to push the stone away, un-wrap him and let him go.

This is very reasonable. I think you agree with me.

I love Jesus and Muhammad.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

This may interest you

2008-08-07T05:37:00.000-07:00

Hi

This may interest you.

Jesus did not die on Cross. Please don’t mind. In my opinion he survived death on Cross, as he promised to show sign of Jonah. And Jonah entered the belly of fish alive, remained alive in the belly of the fish and came out alive from the belly of the fish. Similarly Jesus entered the tomb where he was laid after he was delivered from the Cross, in a precarious condition but nevertheless alive. Jesus remained alive in the tomb and came out of it alive. Since he never died on the Cross, there is no question of his resurrection from the dead. This has been proved by the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 from several arguments from the Quran, NTBible and the medical and the history.

Second Coming has already taken place in the form of the PromisedMessiah1835-1908 as was prophesised in the scriptures

Kindly visit my blogsite for your comments and/or discussions on it if you like. Differing opinions are also welcome.

I love Jesus, Mary and Muhammad.

Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim