The Promised Messiah 1835-1908 says:
God commences the Holy Qur’an with the following verse which is contained in surah al-Fatihah:
The Holy Quran : Chapter 1: Al-Fatihah
[1:2] All praise belongs to Allah, Lord of all the worlds,
That is, all perfect and holy attributes belong exclusively to Allah, Who is the Lord of all the worlds.
The word ‘alam comprises all different peoples, all different ages and all the different countries. The commencement of the Holy Qur’an with this verse was designed to counter the views of such people as attempted to monopolise God’s unlimited providence for their own nation and imagined that the other nations did not belong to God or that having created these other people, God discarded them as being of no consequence, or else perhaps they were shelved to oblivion by Him, or (God forbid) they were not even created by Him.
To illustrate this further, we refer to the view of the Jews and the Christians, still commonly held by them, that all the Prophets and Messengers of God belonged only to the House of Israel, and that God completely ignored the religious and spiritual requirements of other people, as though He were displeased with them and that, despite finding them in manifest error and ignorance, He showed least concern for their spiritual welfare. As is also written in the Gospels that Jesus Christ (peace be on him) observed that he had been sent only for the lost sheep of Israel.
Impossible as it is, yet by way of argument let us assume that Jesusas did claim to be God. In that case, for him to confine his beneficence to such a small circle as the House of Israel does not behove the magnanimity of God. Had he been God, was he God only for the House of Israel to the exclusion of all other nations? He is known to have suggested that he had no concern for those who did not belong to the House of Israel.
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Matthew, 15:24)
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Message-of-Peace.pdf
I love Jesus, Mary and Muhammmad.
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
Sunday, August 31, 2008
Thursday, August 28, 2008
rising from medically dead only a Christian fiction
TC ROBINSON Says:
Sat Jul 12, 2008
http://newleaven.com/2008/07/12/they-will-not-be-convinced-even-if-someone-rises-from-the-dead/
They will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.
paarsurrey says:
on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 8:26 pm
Hi
This may interest you.
Jesus did not die on Cross. Please don’t mind. In my opinion he survived death on Cross, as he promised to show sign of Jonah. And Jonah entered the belly of fish alive, remained alive in the belly of the fish and came out alive from the belly of the fish. Similarly Jesus entered the tomb where he was laid after he was delivered from the Cross, in a precarious condition but nevertheless alive. Jesus remained alive in the tomb and came out of it alive.
Since Jesus never died on the Cross, there is no question of his resurrection from the dead.
This has been proved by the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 from several arguments from the Quran, NTBible and the medical books and the history.
Second Coming has already taken place in the form of the PromisedMessiah1835-1908 as was prophesised in the scriptures.
Kindly visit my blogsite for your comments and/or discussions on the posts/pages there if you like. Differing opinions are also welcome.
I love Jesus, Mary and Muhammad.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
BelieverByFaith says:
on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 1:49 pm
This is in response to the comment by paarsurrey. I am not sure on why this idea is commended by many Non-Christians today. I feel, this is just an escape route to sway away from accepting the concept of resurrection.
History has verified the death of Jesus Christ and same are the tomb and clothes that embodied Christ. Additionally John 19:34, verifies that a Soldier pierced a side of Jesus “…bringing a sudden flow of blood and water”. This would have ensured the death on the cross and cannot be alive under any noted “precarious condition”.
Again, I am not sure on any authenticity to “Promised Messiah 1835-1908″ information. There are many who have made such claims and History doesn’t remember them anymore. It so happens that the entire History has a different view on Christ’s death and resurrection, against the view of my friend!
Paarsurrey says:
Hi my Christian friend, BelieverByFaith!
If you say that you believe that Jesus died a cursed deatg on Cross simply out of blind faith and because the biased Christian Church has made to belief you in this; this is understandable to me. But to say that history has ever had any evidence of Jesus dying on Cross; sorry, that is not there.
There is also no proof from secular history of anybody rising from the medically and physically dead. This is only a Christian fiction neither a fact nor a historical and medical reality.
There is no evidence of secular history in this regard. If you have any, please, present it here.
The evidence of secular history is against Jesus dying on Cross my friend.
I love Jesus, Mary and Muhammad.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
Sat Jul 12, 2008
http://newleaven.com/2008/07/12/they-will-not-be-convinced-even-if-someone-rises-from-the-dead/
They will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.
paarsurrey says:
on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 8:26 pm
Hi
This may interest you.
Jesus did not die on Cross. Please don’t mind. In my opinion he survived death on Cross, as he promised to show sign of Jonah. And Jonah entered the belly of fish alive, remained alive in the belly of the fish and came out alive from the belly of the fish. Similarly Jesus entered the tomb where he was laid after he was delivered from the Cross, in a precarious condition but nevertheless alive. Jesus remained alive in the tomb and came out of it alive.
Since Jesus never died on the Cross, there is no question of his resurrection from the dead.
This has been proved by the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 from several arguments from the Quran, NTBible and the medical books and the history.
Second Coming has already taken place in the form of the PromisedMessiah1835-1908 as was prophesised in the scriptures.
Kindly visit my blogsite for your comments and/or discussions on the posts/pages there if you like. Differing opinions are also welcome.
I love Jesus, Mary and Muhammad.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
BelieverByFaith says:
on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 1:49 pm
This is in response to the comment by paarsurrey. I am not sure on why this idea is commended by many Non-Christians today. I feel, this is just an escape route to sway away from accepting the concept of resurrection.
History has verified the death of Jesus Christ and same are the tomb and clothes that embodied Christ. Additionally John 19:34, verifies that a Soldier pierced a side of Jesus “…bringing a sudden flow of blood and water”. This would have ensured the death on the cross and cannot be alive under any noted “precarious condition”.
Again, I am not sure on any authenticity to “Promised Messiah 1835-1908″ information. There are many who have made such claims and History doesn’t remember them anymore. It so happens that the entire History has a different view on Christ’s death and resurrection, against the view of my friend!
Paarsurrey says:
Hi my Christian friend, BelieverByFaith!
If you say that you believe that Jesus died a cursed deatg on Cross simply out of blind faith and because the biased Christian Church has made to belief you in this; this is understandable to me. But to say that history has ever had any evidence of Jesus dying on Cross; sorry, that is not there.
There is also no proof from secular history of anybody rising from the medically and physically dead. This is only a Christian fiction neither a fact nor a historical and medical reality.
There is no evidence of secular history in this regard. If you have any, please, present it here.
The evidence of secular history is against Jesus dying on Cross my friend.
I love Jesus, Mary and Muhammad.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
Wednesday, August 27, 2008
Jesus in fact came to India
Promised Messiah says:
Let it be noted that though Christians believe that Jesus (peace be on him) after his arrest through the betrayal by Judas Iscariot, and crucifixion -- and resurrection -- went to heaven, yet, from the Holy Bible, it appears that this belief of theirs is altogether wrong. Matthew (chapter 12, verse 40) says that just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the fish, so the Son of Man shall be three days and three nights in the bowels of the earth. Now it is clear that Jonah did not die in the belly of the fish; the utmost that happened was that he was in a swoon or a fit of fainting.
The holy books of God bear witness that Jonah, by the grace of God, remained alive in the belly of the fish, and came out alive; and his people ultimately accepted him. If then Jesus (on whom be peace) had died in the belly of the 'fish', what resemblance could there be between a dead man and the one who was alive, and how could a living one be compared with one dead? The truth rather is, that as Jesus was a true prophet and as he knew that God, whose beloved he was, would save him from an accursed death, he made a prophecy in the form of a parable, revealed to him by God, in which he hinted that he would not die on the Cross, nor would he give up the ghost on the accursed wood; on the contrary, like the prophet Jonah, he would only pass through a state of swoon.
In the parable he had also hinted that he would come out of the bowels of the earth and would then join the people and, like Jonah, would be honoured by them. So this prophecy too was fulfilled; for Jesus, coming out of the bowels of the earth, went to his tribes who lived in the eastern countries, Kashmir and Tibet, etc. viz. the ten tribes of the Israelites who 721 years before Jesus, had been taken prisoner from Samaria by Shalmaneser, King of Assur, and had been taken away by him.
Ultimately, these tribes came to India and settled in various parts of that country. Jesus at all events must have made this journey; for the divine object underlying his advent was that he should meet the lost Jews who had settled in different parts of India; the reason being that these in fact were the lost sheep of Israel who had given up even their ancestral faith in these countries, and most of whom had adopted Buddhism, relapsing, gradually into idolatry. Dr. Bernier, on the authority of a number of learned people, states in his Travels that the Kashmiris in reality are Jews who in the time of the dispersal in the days of the King of Assur had migrated to this country.
In any case it was necessary for Jesus (peace be on him) to find out the whereabouts of these lost sheep, who had, on coming to this country, India, become merged into the other people. I shall presently adduce evidence that Jesus (peace be on him) did in fact come to India and then, by stages, travelled to Kashmir, and discovered the lost sheep of Israel among the people who professed the Buddhist faith and that these people ultimately accepted him, just as the people of the prophet Jonah accepted Jonah. And this was inevitable, for Jesus had said in so many words that he had been sent to the lost sheep of Israel.
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/ch1.html
Let it be noted that though Christians believe that Jesus (peace be on him) after his arrest through the betrayal by Judas Iscariot, and crucifixion -- and resurrection -- went to heaven, yet, from the Holy Bible, it appears that this belief of theirs is altogether wrong. Matthew (chapter 12, verse 40) says that just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the fish, so the Son of Man shall be three days and three nights in the bowels of the earth. Now it is clear that Jonah did not die in the belly of the fish; the utmost that happened was that he was in a swoon or a fit of fainting.
The holy books of God bear witness that Jonah, by the grace of God, remained alive in the belly of the fish, and came out alive; and his people ultimately accepted him. If then Jesus (on whom be peace) had died in the belly of the 'fish', what resemblance could there be between a dead man and the one who was alive, and how could a living one be compared with one dead? The truth rather is, that as Jesus was a true prophet and as he knew that God, whose beloved he was, would save him from an accursed death, he made a prophecy in the form of a parable, revealed to him by God, in which he hinted that he would not die on the Cross, nor would he give up the ghost on the accursed wood; on the contrary, like the prophet Jonah, he would only pass through a state of swoon.
In the parable he had also hinted that he would come out of the bowels of the earth and would then join the people and, like Jonah, would be honoured by them. So this prophecy too was fulfilled; for Jesus, coming out of the bowels of the earth, went to his tribes who lived in the eastern countries, Kashmir and Tibet, etc. viz. the ten tribes of the Israelites who 721 years before Jesus, had been taken prisoner from Samaria by Shalmaneser, King of Assur, and had been taken away by him.
Ultimately, these tribes came to India and settled in various parts of that country. Jesus at all events must have made this journey; for the divine object underlying his advent was that he should meet the lost Jews who had settled in different parts of India; the reason being that these in fact were the lost sheep of Israel who had given up even their ancestral faith in these countries, and most of whom had adopted Buddhism, relapsing, gradually into idolatry. Dr. Bernier, on the authority of a number of learned people, states in his Travels that the Kashmiris in reality are Jews who in the time of the dispersal in the days of the King of Assur had migrated to this country.
In any case it was necessary for Jesus (peace be on him) to find out the whereabouts of these lost sheep, who had, on coming to this country, India, become merged into the other people. I shall presently adduce evidence that Jesus (peace be on him) did in fact come to India and then, by stages, travelled to Kashmir, and discovered the lost sheep of Israel among the people who professed the Buddhist faith and that these people ultimately accepted him, just as the people of the prophet Jonah accepted Jonah. And this was inevitable, for Jesus had said in so many words that he had been sent to the lost sheep of Israel.
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/ch1.html
When you meet in a regular battle: Quranic verse
The Holy Quran : Chapter 47: Muhammad
[47:5] And when you meet in regular battle those who disbelieve, smite their necks; and, when you have overcome them, by causing great slaughter among them, bind fast the fetters - then afterwards either release them as a favour or by taking ransom - until the war lays down its burdens. That is the ordinance. And if Allah had so pleased, He could have punished them Himself, but He has willed that He may try some of you by others. And those who are killed in the way of Allah - He will never render their works vain.
http://www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?ch=47
One should note always to understand a verse with its context. Sometimes people only mention a syllable and hence misunderstand the sentence. I would like such people to adopt the right approach and always read some versed before and after the verse they want to understand. That would be a wise and peaceful approach.
This verse mentions of Jehad in the way of Allah and its central theme. First it is mentioned that those tribes who had waged war againts the believers; they are to be subdued, arrested and and bound vigouriously but not harmed bodily; till such time that the war gets finished. When the war is finished then the Prisoners of War are to be released, after taking ransom if they could pay it; and if they cannot pay it even then they are to be set free without the ransom money on humanitarian basis, and that is appreciated and is considere a virtue.
Those who maintain that the concept of Islamic war is to convert others to Islam forcibly are totally wrong and their thinking is refuted here; this verse rejects their contention. This was the proper time when it should have been instructed to convert these POWs to Islam but there is no such instruction to do. This verse does not mention. On the other hand it rather says that they who had been subdued and arrested should be released, even if they don’t pay any ransom.
Now I give hereunder the verse in a connected context:
[47:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[47:2] Those who disbelieve and hinder men from the way of Allah - He renders their works vain.
[47:3] But as for those who believe and do righteous deeds and believe in that which has been revealed to Muhammad - and it is the truth from their Lord - He removes from them their sins and sets right their affairs.
[47:4] That is because those who disbelieve follow falsehood while those who believe follow the truth from their Lord. Thus does Allah set forth for men their lessons by similitudes.
[47:5] And when you meet in regular battle those who disbelieve, smite their necks; and, when you have overcome them, by causing great slaughter among them, bind fast the fetters - then afterwards either release them as a favour or by taking ransom - until the war lays down its burdens. That is the ordinance. And if Allah had so pleased, He could have punished them Himself, but He has willed that He may try some of you by others. And those who are killed in the way of Allah - He will never render their works vain.
[47:6] He will guide them to success and will improve their condition.
[47:7] And will admit them into the Garden which He has made known to them.
[47:8] O ye who believe! if you help the cause of Allah, He will help you and will make your steps firm.
[47:9] But those who disbelieve, perdition is their lot; and He will make their works vain.
[47:10] That is because they hate what Allah has revealed; so He has made their works vain.
http://www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?ch=47
One could see that the POWs are dealt with humanly and rationally as per the prevalent world conventions, rather better than that.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
[47:5] And when you meet in regular battle those who disbelieve, smite their necks; and, when you have overcome them, by causing great slaughter among them, bind fast the fetters - then afterwards either release them as a favour or by taking ransom - until the war lays down its burdens. That is the ordinance. And if Allah had so pleased, He could have punished them Himself, but He has willed that He may try some of you by others. And those who are killed in the way of Allah - He will never render their works vain.
http://www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?ch=47
One should note always to understand a verse with its context. Sometimes people only mention a syllable and hence misunderstand the sentence. I would like such people to adopt the right approach and always read some versed before and after the verse they want to understand. That would be a wise and peaceful approach.
This verse mentions of Jehad in the way of Allah and its central theme. First it is mentioned that those tribes who had waged war againts the believers; they are to be subdued, arrested and and bound vigouriously but not harmed bodily; till such time that the war gets finished. When the war is finished then the Prisoners of War are to be released, after taking ransom if they could pay it; and if they cannot pay it even then they are to be set free without the ransom money on humanitarian basis, and that is appreciated and is considere a virtue.
Those who maintain that the concept of Islamic war is to convert others to Islam forcibly are totally wrong and their thinking is refuted here; this verse rejects their contention. This was the proper time when it should have been instructed to convert these POWs to Islam but there is no such instruction to do. This verse does not mention. On the other hand it rather says that they who had been subdued and arrested should be released, even if they don’t pay any ransom.
Now I give hereunder the verse in a connected context:
[47:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[47:2] Those who disbelieve and hinder men from the way of Allah - He renders their works vain.
[47:3] But as for those who believe and do righteous deeds and believe in that which has been revealed to Muhammad - and it is the truth from their Lord - He removes from them their sins and sets right their affairs.
[47:4] That is because those who disbelieve follow falsehood while those who believe follow the truth from their Lord. Thus does Allah set forth for men their lessons by similitudes.
[47:5] And when you meet in regular battle those who disbelieve, smite their necks; and, when you have overcome them, by causing great slaughter among them, bind fast the fetters - then afterwards either release them as a favour or by taking ransom - until the war lays down its burdens. That is the ordinance. And if Allah had so pleased, He could have punished them Himself, but He has willed that He may try some of you by others. And those who are killed in the way of Allah - He will never render their works vain.
[47:6] He will guide them to success and will improve their condition.
[47:7] And will admit them into the Garden which He has made known to them.
[47:8] O ye who believe! if you help the cause of Allah, He will help you and will make your steps firm.
[47:9] But those who disbelieve, perdition is their lot; and He will make their works vain.
[47:10] That is because they hate what Allah has revealed; so He has made their works vain.
http://www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?ch=47
One could see that the POWs are dealt with humanly and rationally as per the prevalent world conventions, rather better than that.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
Tuesday, August 26, 2008
Jesus is not the same today
My Christian friend richmaffeobooks said:
“This question of the Real Presence, for me, revolves around the concept of the timelessness of eternity. I look at it this way, from our perspective, Jesus died some 2,000 years ago. But from God's perspective (because He is outside time and space) Jesus is STILL on the cross, (and He has not yet gone to the cross), because time is not linear in eternity. Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever because He is outside of linear time.”
Paarsurrey said:
I think this must be your opinion only. JesusYeshuaIssa, as you know according to Holger Kersten, a German Scholar did not die on Cross but he died a natural and peaceful death in Sirinagar, Kashmir, India at the age of 120 years ( not 33 years as is commonly believed). Now he is resting in the heavens as did Moses, he died and got buried and now he is resting in the heavens.
Also now Jesus' Second Coming has taken place in the form of the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908, so in my opinion, relevance of all such ideas doesn’t remain valid.
You say "Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever because He is outside of linear time". Kindly give straight passages from OTBible in support of your this claim and also for the reason , if any.
Please don't mind, I respect your faith.
Thanks
Antother Cahtolic friend adrift said:
“If this were true, which it is not, it would make Jesus a liar.”
Quote:
“Also now Jesus' Second Coming has taken place in the form of the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908, so in my opinion, relevance of all such ideas doesn’t remain valid.
There is no such thing as reincarnation this cannot be true.”
”Opinion should be based on truth.”
Paarsurrey said:
Hi
I respect your faith. I don't blame you, but the common man in your faith has been made to believe certain things which are not actually there. For instance, Jesus was never put in a grave, but you believe that he was put in a grave where even a healthy man whether one was earlier put on Cross or not would die. Jesus did not get resurrected from a grave, as he was never buried in grave.
He was laid in a tomb, which was spacious enough to accommodate two/three persons, it had a bigger opening which could be termed as a door and a smaller one that could be termed as a ventilator so that Jesus does not get suffocated there. This seems to be well thought of secret plan of Pilate who had held Jesus innocent and did not want that he should be killed on cross. Nicodimus, the physician brought an unusual quantity of herbs (fragrances) which were ingredients of a miraculous ointment later known in the ancient medical books as Ointment of Jesus or Ointment of Disciples which were applied on his body. Jesus was laid unconscious in the tomb but with this treatment he got cured in due course of time; and that fulfilled the Sign of Jonah of which Jesus had prophesized. So that is perhaps the reality of the events, I think.
You have the right to differ with me and you are welcome.
Jesus' Second Coming 1835-1908 is not that his spirit has entered literally in the body of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the PromisedMessiah. This is not our concept, which would be much of a concept of Hinduism or Buddhism. Our concept is that as Jesus came into Judaism which were divided into many a cruel and hardened sects and Jesus was sent to soften them and unite them under his peaceful teachings, so is the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 to work for unity of faiths/denominations/religions of the world with peaceful means; well you can uderstand that this is not a smaller job.I think you agree with me. It is no difficult to understand.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful MuslimI am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
“This question of the Real Presence, for me, revolves around the concept of the timelessness of eternity. I look at it this way, from our perspective, Jesus died some 2,000 years ago. But from God's perspective (because He is outside time and space) Jesus is STILL on the cross, (and He has not yet gone to the cross), because time is not linear in eternity. Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever because He is outside of linear time.”
Paarsurrey said:
I think this must be your opinion only. JesusYeshuaIssa, as you know according to Holger Kersten, a German Scholar did not die on Cross but he died a natural and peaceful death in Sirinagar, Kashmir, India at the age of 120 years ( not 33 years as is commonly believed). Now he is resting in the heavens as did Moses, he died and got buried and now he is resting in the heavens.
Also now Jesus' Second Coming has taken place in the form of the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908, so in my opinion, relevance of all such ideas doesn’t remain valid.
You say "Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever because He is outside of linear time". Kindly give straight passages from OTBible in support of your this claim and also for the reason , if any.
Please don't mind, I respect your faith.
Thanks
Antother Cahtolic friend adrift said:
“If this were true, which it is not, it would make Jesus a liar.”
Quote:
“Also now Jesus' Second Coming has taken place in the form of the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908, so in my opinion, relevance of all such ideas doesn’t remain valid.
There is no such thing as reincarnation this cannot be true.”
”Opinion should be based on truth.”
Paarsurrey said:
Hi
I respect your faith. I don't blame you, but the common man in your faith has been made to believe certain things which are not actually there. For instance, Jesus was never put in a grave, but you believe that he was put in a grave where even a healthy man whether one was earlier put on Cross or not would die. Jesus did not get resurrected from a grave, as he was never buried in grave.
He was laid in a tomb, which was spacious enough to accommodate two/three persons, it had a bigger opening which could be termed as a door and a smaller one that could be termed as a ventilator so that Jesus does not get suffocated there. This seems to be well thought of secret plan of Pilate who had held Jesus innocent and did not want that he should be killed on cross. Nicodimus, the physician brought an unusual quantity of herbs (fragrances) which were ingredients of a miraculous ointment later known in the ancient medical books as Ointment of Jesus or Ointment of Disciples which were applied on his body. Jesus was laid unconscious in the tomb but with this treatment he got cured in due course of time; and that fulfilled the Sign of Jonah of which Jesus had prophesized. So that is perhaps the reality of the events, I think.
You have the right to differ with me and you are welcome.
Jesus' Second Coming 1835-1908 is not that his spirit has entered literally in the body of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the PromisedMessiah. This is not our concept, which would be much of a concept of Hinduism or Buddhism. Our concept is that as Jesus came into Judaism which were divided into many a cruel and hardened sects and Jesus was sent to soften them and unite them under his peaceful teachings, so is the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 to work for unity of faiths/denominations/religions of the world with peaceful means; well you can uderstand that this is not a smaller job.I think you agree with me. It is no difficult to understand.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful MuslimI am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
Jesus is not the same today
My Christian friend richmaffeobooks said:
“This question of the Real Presence, for me, revolves around the concept of the timelessness of eternity. I look at it this way, from our perspective, Jesus died some 2,000 years ago. But from God's perspective (because He is outside time and space) Jesus is STILL on the cross, (and He has not yet gone to the cross), because time is not linear in eternity. Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever because He is outside of linear time.”
Paarsurrey said:
I think this must be your opinion only. JesusYeshuaIssa, as you know according to Holger Kersten, a German Scholar did not die on Cross but he died a natural and peaceful death in Sirinagar, Kashmir, India at the age of 120 years ( not 33 years as is commonly believed). Now he is resting in the heavens as did Moses, he died and got buried and now he is resting in the heavens.
Also now Jesus' Second Coming has taken place in the form of the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908, so in my opinion, relevance of all such ideas doesn’t remain valid.
You say "Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever because He is outside of linear time". Kindly give straight passages from OTBible in support of your this claim and also for the reason , if any.
Please don't mind, I respect your faith.
Thanks
Antother Cahtolic friend adrift said:
“If this were true, which it is not, it would make Jesus a liar.”
Quote:
“Also now Jesus' Second Coming has taken place in the form of the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908, so in my opinion, relevance of all such ideas doesn’t remain valid.
There is no such thing as reincarnation this cannot be true.”
”Opinion should be based on truth.”
Paarsurrey said:
Hi
I respect your faith. I don't blame you, but the common man in your faith has been made to believe certain things which are not actually there. For instance, Jesus was never put in a grave, but you believe that he was put in a grave where even a healthy man whether one was earlier put on Cross or not would die. Jesus did not get resurrected from a grave, as he was never buried in grave.
He was laid in a tomb, which was spacious enough to accommodate two/three persons, it had a bigger opening which could be termed as a door and a smaller one that could be termed as a ventilator so that Jesus does not get suffocated there. This seems to be well thought of secret plan of Pilate who had held Jesus innocent and did not want that he should be killed on cross. Nicodimus, the physician brought an unusual quantity of herbs (fragrances) which were ingredients of a miraculous ointment later known in the ancient medical books as Ointment of Jesus or Ointment of Disciples which were applied on his body. Jesus was laid unconscious in the tomb but with this treatment he got cured in due course of time; and that fulfilled the Sign of Jonah of which Jesus had prophesized. So that is perhaps the reality of the events, I think.
You have the right to differ with me and you are welcome.
Jesus' Second Coming 1835-1908 is not that his spirit has entered literally in the body of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the PromisedMessiah. This is not our concept, which would be much of a concept of Hinduism or Buddhism. Our concept is that as Jesus came into Judaism which were divided into many a cruel and hardened sects and Jesus was sent to soften them and unite them under his peaceful teachings, so is the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 to work for unity of faiths/denominations/religions of the world with peaceful means; well you can uderstand that this is not a smaller job.I think you agree with me. It is no difficult to understand.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
“This question of the Real Presence, for me, revolves around the concept of the timelessness of eternity. I look at it this way, from our perspective, Jesus died some 2,000 years ago. But from God's perspective (because He is outside time and space) Jesus is STILL on the cross, (and He has not yet gone to the cross), because time is not linear in eternity. Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever because He is outside of linear time.”
Paarsurrey said:
I think this must be your opinion only. JesusYeshuaIssa, as you know according to Holger Kersten, a German Scholar did not die on Cross but he died a natural and peaceful death in Sirinagar, Kashmir, India at the age of 120 years ( not 33 years as is commonly believed). Now he is resting in the heavens as did Moses, he died and got buried and now he is resting in the heavens.
Also now Jesus' Second Coming has taken place in the form of the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908, so in my opinion, relevance of all such ideas doesn’t remain valid.
You say "Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever because He is outside of linear time". Kindly give straight passages from OTBible in support of your this claim and also for the reason , if any.
Please don't mind, I respect your faith.
Thanks
Antother Cahtolic friend adrift said:
“If this were true, which it is not, it would make Jesus a liar.”
Quote:
“Also now Jesus' Second Coming has taken place in the form of the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908, so in my opinion, relevance of all such ideas doesn’t remain valid.
There is no such thing as reincarnation this cannot be true.”
”Opinion should be based on truth.”
Paarsurrey said:
Hi
I respect your faith. I don't blame you, but the common man in your faith has been made to believe certain things which are not actually there. For instance, Jesus was never put in a grave, but you believe that he was put in a grave where even a healthy man whether one was earlier put on Cross or not would die. Jesus did not get resurrected from a grave, as he was never buried in grave.
He was laid in a tomb, which was spacious enough to accommodate two/three persons, it had a bigger opening which could be termed as a door and a smaller one that could be termed as a ventilator so that Jesus does not get suffocated there. This seems to be well thought of secret plan of Pilate who had held Jesus innocent and did not want that he should be killed on cross. Nicodimus, the physician brought an unusual quantity of herbs (fragrances) which were ingredients of a miraculous ointment later known in the ancient medical books as Ointment of Jesus or Ointment of Disciples which were applied on his body. Jesus was laid unconscious in the tomb but with this treatment he got cured in due course of time; and that fulfilled the Sign of Jonah of which Jesus had prophesized. So that is perhaps the reality of the events, I think.
You have the right to differ with me and you are welcome.
Jesus' Second Coming 1835-1908 is not that his spirit has entered literally in the body of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the PromisedMessiah. This is not our concept, which would be much of a concept of Hinduism or Buddhism. Our concept is that as Jesus came into Judaism which were divided into many a cruel and hardened sects and Jesus was sent to soften them and unite them under his peaceful teachings, so is the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 to work for unity of faiths/denominations/religions of the world with peaceful means; well you can uderstand that this is not a smaller job.I think you agree with me. It is no difficult to understand.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
Of Christians being cut off from the tree of life
Hi
Did Jesus receive Word from GodAllahYHWH or not?
If he received and he used to secure it, naturally; where is that? I am not talking about the NT; it was definitely added later, but it does not consist of Revelation, it is as our Christian friends say an inspiration at the most, if proved, and not Word from the mouth of God.
I don’t have to blame Catholics for the addition of six books (or some say it is 13 books) in the Bible; but it is what the Protestants or JWs and so many other Christian denominations hold.
Now some people insist that this warning of being cut off from the tree of life is only for the Book of Revelation and not for the whole NTBible or the whole OTBible+NTBible. I don't believe this as I can't find any other verse/s for the security of Bible from corruption except this lone verse, otherwise you know the JWs would have put up that before me when they visited me.They are very smart in this respect if you have any experience with them.
One of my Catholic friends has quoted a verse from the Bible to defend that the Catholic Bible is protected.
Here is the quote from the Bible that give the assurance to followers that the Catholic Churhc God will always protect the Catholic Church…. This includes the Bible as the Bible is a Catholic document.
And I also, I say unto thee that thou art Peter, and on this rock I will build my assembly, and hades' gates shall not prevail against it.” [Mathew 16:18]
Now this is clearly a case of circular argument. All Catholic documents were written after when Jesus disappeared from Galilee and went to India. There is no proof that Jesus ever said that to Peter.
Moreover the above quote does not specifically mention of the security of bible and its protection as does the quote of Revelation, I think one would agree with me in this respect.
So bible is not covered under the protection clause of Revelation, which is obvious even otherwise.
The quote also makes no mention of the Catholic Church. Does it? I think it is a guess of the Catholics only. The guesses never make facts. I would request my Christian friends to please mention a specific verse for protection and security of Bible from Bible OT&NT; otherwise it would be free for all the denominations to add or take out anything from the Bible.
I love Jesus and Mary.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
Did Jesus receive Word from GodAllahYHWH or not?
If he received and he used to secure it, naturally; where is that? I am not talking about the NT; it was definitely added later, but it does not consist of Revelation, it is as our Christian friends say an inspiration at the most, if proved, and not Word from the mouth of God.
I don’t have to blame Catholics for the addition of six books (or some say it is 13 books) in the Bible; but it is what the Protestants or JWs and so many other Christian denominations hold.
Now some people insist that this warning of being cut off from the tree of life is only for the Book of Revelation and not for the whole NTBible or the whole OTBible+NTBible. I don't believe this as I can't find any other verse/s for the security of Bible from corruption except this lone verse, otherwise you know the JWs would have put up that before me when they visited me.They are very smart in this respect if you have any experience with them.
One of my Catholic friends has quoted a verse from the Bible to defend that the Catholic Bible is protected.
Here is the quote from the Bible that give the assurance to followers that the Catholic Churhc God will always protect the Catholic Church…. This includes the Bible as the Bible is a Catholic document.
And I also, I say unto thee that thou art Peter, and on this rock I will build my assembly, and hades' gates shall not prevail against it.” [Mathew 16:18]
Now this is clearly a case of circular argument. All Catholic documents were written after when Jesus disappeared from Galilee and went to India. There is no proof that Jesus ever said that to Peter.
Moreover the above quote does not specifically mention of the security of bible and its protection as does the quote of Revelation, I think one would agree with me in this respect.
So bible is not covered under the protection clause of Revelation, which is obvious even otherwise.
The quote also makes no mention of the Catholic Church. Does it? I think it is a guess of the Catholics only. The guesses never make facts. I would request my Christian friends to please mention a specific verse for protection and security of Bible from Bible OT&NT; otherwise it would be free for all the denominations to add or take out anything from the Bible.
I love Jesus and Mary.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
Bible- mentions a partial account of Jesus' life
I made following comments on the write-up on following blog:
http://thirsting4wisdom.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/inevitable/#comments
paarsurrey Says:
June 16, 2008 at 4:48 am
Hi
Peace
I respect your faith.
If you want that the people should know the truthful account of Jesus’ life and his teachings; I think it would be better to get introduced to the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 in whose metaphoric form the SecondComing has taken place, in my opinion.
You could happily differ with me.
Kindly visit my blogsite for interesting posts there and for a peaceful discussion if you like.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
thirsting4wisdom Says:
July 1, 2008 at 1:45 am
I’m not sure what you are referring to but I would like to know. I think that the best way to find out about Jesus is to go to the source and talk to Him one on one because He is alive. Most people have a hard time with that or aren’t sure if they can discern His voice so I would recommend going straight to Scripture instead of a commentary or other source. Reading the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) are an accounting of the life of Jesus by those who walked, talked, ate and lived with Him. That would be the best way to understand who Jesus was and is.
paarsurrey Says:
Hi thirsting4wisdom !
Jesus went in exile to India from Galilee after the event of Crucifixtion. Jesus died in Sirinagar, Kashmir, India; a natural and peaceful death. He did not take Matthew, Mark, Luke and John with him to India; so they cannot be a source of full account of Jesus’ life. Jesus is not alive today, so one cannot talk to him.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
http://thirsting4wisdom.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/inevitable/#comments
paarsurrey Says:
June 16, 2008 at 4:48 am
Hi
Peace
I respect your faith.
If you want that the people should know the truthful account of Jesus’ life and his teachings; I think it would be better to get introduced to the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 in whose metaphoric form the SecondComing has taken place, in my opinion.
You could happily differ with me.
Kindly visit my blogsite for interesting posts there and for a peaceful discussion if you like.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
thirsting4wisdom Says:
July 1, 2008 at 1:45 am
I’m not sure what you are referring to but I would like to know. I think that the best way to find out about Jesus is to go to the source and talk to Him one on one because He is alive. Most people have a hard time with that or aren’t sure if they can discern His voice so I would recommend going straight to Scripture instead of a commentary or other source. Reading the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) are an accounting of the life of Jesus by those who walked, talked, ate and lived with Him. That would be the best way to understand who Jesus was and is.
paarsurrey Says:
Hi thirsting4wisdom !
Jesus went in exile to India from Galilee after the event of Crucifixtion. Jesus died in Sirinagar, Kashmir, India; a natural and peaceful death. He did not take Matthew, Mark, Luke and John with him to India; so they cannot be a source of full account of Jesus’ life. Jesus is not alive today, so one cannot talk to him.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
Saturday, August 23, 2008
Catholic Church established its hegemony over the followers in the name of Jesus
Hi
There are no specific verses of GodAllahYHWH in OT/NTBible protecting these books from additions or taking away something from them. So it was logical for the writer of Revelation to mention a warning in this regard, according to some, only to cover his book and not the rest of books collected together and bound in to be called NTBible.
So the authority of Church unless it would have been mentioned clearly in the revelation of GodAllahYHWH on Jesus in so many words seems vulnerable, and is, in my opinion, only a made up story by the Church to establish its hegemony over the followers. I think it is not more than that, and that might be the reason of Luther protesting against the abusive authority of the Catholic Church.
To sum up we could safely conclude that it is the CatholicChurch which gathered together all of the religious writings of the early Christians and decided arbitrarily which of those writing was inspired by God and they thought was just good for Christians to read.
If one person could make mistakes, then a group of persons could make as many mistakes as there are persons in that group, which could mean innumerable mistakes could be made by the ChurchPeople, so there remains neither a question of Revelation from God nor Inspiration from God from my point of view. The ChurchPeople are never innocent people, they are sinful persons like any other persons; they are not immune from sins, history is full of that. So, neither GodAllahYHWH is involved in this work, nor JesusYeshuaIssa.It is a weird thing indeed. I think it is for such reasons that the Protestants thought of registering a protest. I am clear about that.
But alas! In this Catholic and Protestant strife, the original Word of GodAllahYHWH revealed on JesusYeshuaIssa which he used to read himself has been lost altogether.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
There are no specific verses of GodAllahYHWH in OT/NTBible protecting these books from additions or taking away something from them. So it was logical for the writer of Revelation to mention a warning in this regard, according to some, only to cover his book and not the rest of books collected together and bound in to be called NTBible.
So the authority of Church unless it would have been mentioned clearly in the revelation of GodAllahYHWH on Jesus in so many words seems vulnerable, and is, in my opinion, only a made up story by the Church to establish its hegemony over the followers. I think it is not more than that, and that might be the reason of Luther protesting against the abusive authority of the Catholic Church.
To sum up we could safely conclude that it is the CatholicChurch which gathered together all of the religious writings of the early Christians and decided arbitrarily which of those writing was inspired by God and they thought was just good for Christians to read.
If one person could make mistakes, then a group of persons could make as many mistakes as there are persons in that group, which could mean innumerable mistakes could be made by the ChurchPeople, so there remains neither a question of Revelation from God nor Inspiration from God from my point of view. The ChurchPeople are never innocent people, they are sinful persons like any other persons; they are not immune from sins, history is full of that. So, neither GodAllahYHWH is involved in this work, nor JesusYeshuaIssa.It is a weird thing indeed. I think it is for such reasons that the Protestants thought of registering a protest. I am clear about that.
But alas! In this Catholic and Protestant strife, the original Word of GodAllahYHWH revealed on JesusYeshuaIssa which he used to read himself has been lost altogether.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
Friday, August 22, 2008
Jesus never added anything in Torah or took away anything from it
Hi
In my opinion JesusYeshuaIssa was a subordinate ProphetMessenger of Moses and of his Book called Torah. JesusYeshuaIssa, therefore, never added and was not authorised to add anything in Torah or take away anything from Torah. Except for the words Jesus himself spoke, which are in fact in support of Torah. Almost all of what has been collected and bound by the Church and called NTBible and followed by the Catholics / Protestants, is in my opinion an addition to Torah or taking away something from Torah under one pretex or the other. Jesus is not responsible for all these made up things in his name.
Please stick to your own opinion, no compulsion.
I respect your faith.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
In my opinion JesusYeshuaIssa was a subordinate ProphetMessenger of Moses and of his Book called Torah. JesusYeshuaIssa, therefore, never added and was not authorised to add anything in Torah or take away anything from Torah. Except for the words Jesus himself spoke, which are in fact in support of Torah. Almost all of what has been collected and bound by the Church and called NTBible and followed by the Catholics / Protestants, is in my opinion an addition to Torah or taking away something from Torah under one pretex or the other. Jesus is not responsible for all these made up things in his name.
Please stick to your own opinion, no compulsion.
I respect your faith.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
Thursday, August 21, 2008
Tree of Life of Christians; Catholics, Protestants, JWs and other 3000+ denominations
Hi
Sometimes ago two JWs came to my house and told me that there had been no change in the Bible, it is impossible and opened before me following passage from the Urdu Protestant Bible (later I came to know that JWs don’t have their own Urdu Bible and hence they prefer to follow Protestant Version and not the Catholic Version): Revelation 22:18-19
18I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
unquote
Incidentally I had a Catholic Urdu Bible with me which I was studying very intently, and I was much impressed by the contents. I brought that and put that on the table. I said let us check both the versions, so we started checking the list of books given in the beginning. We came to know that there were some six books in the Catholic Urdu Bible which were not to be found in the Protestant Bible.
They became pale and upset and went away.
So the addition or diminution of the books; and besides that many verses and chapters suggest, please don’t mind, that perhaps both the Protestants and Catholics have been cut off from the tree of life in terms of the above verses of Revelation 22:18-19.
What is the remedy?
Can both the mainstream Christian denominations agree to a version which should be acceptable to both of them?
May GodAllahYHWH bless them!
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
Sometimes ago two JWs came to my house and told me that there had been no change in the Bible, it is impossible and opened before me following passage from the Urdu Protestant Bible (later I came to know that JWs don’t have their own Urdu Bible and hence they prefer to follow Protestant Version and not the Catholic Version): Revelation 22:18-19
18I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
unquote
Incidentally I had a Catholic Urdu Bible with me which I was studying very intently, and I was much impressed by the contents. I brought that and put that on the table. I said let us check both the versions, so we started checking the list of books given in the beginning. We came to know that there were some six books in the Catholic Urdu Bible which were not to be found in the Protestant Bible.
They became pale and upset and went away.
So the addition or diminution of the books; and besides that many verses and chapters suggest, please don’t mind, that perhaps both the Protestants and Catholics have been cut off from the tree of life in terms of the above verses of Revelation 22:18-19.
What is the remedy?
Can both the mainstream Christian denominations agree to a version which should be acceptable to both of them?
May GodAllahYHWH bless them!
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
Wednesday, August 20, 2008
The concept of inherited sin is only a Pauline misinterpretation
The Muslim thinking on atonement is broad based and is not literally linked to the story of Adam and Eve as narrated by the Jewish/Christian scriptures:-
• All human beings are born innocent. After birth or more pertinently after the age when a person is mature enough to distinguish right from the evil, every person is responsible for his actions sinful or otherwise. If he repents before God for his sins and resolves before Him that he would not do it again; God in his mercy and in his sole discretion could pardon him. If God pardons then the person is like the one who has done no sin.
• All prophets -the perfect men; are innocent and not sinful and that is why they are chosen by God as His messengers to humanity (from Adam to Abraham to Moses to Jesus, from Krishna to Buddha to Muhammad) all prophets of God are respectful persons and innocent and not sinful.
My present submissions are not intended against the factual person Jesus s/o Mary -the perfect human being; but it is intended against the mythical Orthodox Christian faith who deify Jesus and present him as Son of God or God. This is solely done to bring such person to realize the points where they made the mistakes so that they could update their faith based on facts, scientific knowledge, reason and rationality.
I agree on many points with the views of certain moderate Christians who believe that God does not play favorites. He loves all His children equally. No just parent would hold their children accountable for what the children did not know .But unlike the orthodox Christians, the moderate Christians do not believe that people who are not Christians are condemned automatically.Their thinking is very close to the human psyche that has not changed much from the time of Adam to date.
To elaborate the point I present what Mirza Tahir Ahmad has stated on the issue:-
Muslims believe that all divine books are based on eternal truth and none can make any claims contrary to that. When we come across inconsistencies and contradictions in any so called divinely revealed book, our attitude is not that of total denial and rejection but that of cautious and sympathetic examination. Most of the statements of the Old Testament and the New Testament, which we find at variance with the truth of nature, we either try to reconcile by reading some underlying cryptic or metaphoric message, or reject part of the text as the work of human hands rather than that of God.
While Christianity itself was true, it could not have contained any distortions, unacceptable facts or beliefs giving a lie to nature. That is why we started not with the textual examination but with the fundamentals themselves, which through centuries of consensus have become indisputable components of Christian philosophy. Rudimentary among them are the Christian understanding of Sin and Atonement. I would much rather believe that someone, somewhere during the history of Christianity, misunderstood things and tried to interpret them in the light of his knowledge and misled the following generations because of that.
The reader must be reminded here that this concept of inherited sin is only a Pauline misinterpretation. It cannot be rightfully attributed to the teachings of the Old Testament. There is an over-whelming evidence t to the c contrary in many books of the Old Testament.
In the fifth century, Augustine the Bishop of Hippo; was involved in a confrontation with the Pelagian movement, concerning the controversy of the nature of the fall of Adam and Eve. He proclaimed the Pelagian movement as being heretical because it taught that Adam’s sin affected only himself and not the human race as a whole; that every individual is born free of sin and is capable in his own power of living a sinless life and that there had even been persons who had succeeded in doing so.
Those in the right were labeled as heretics. Day was denounced as night and night as day. Heresy is truth and truth heresy.
From the above, it becomes comfortingly clear that the concepts of Inherited Sin and of Crucifixion are based only on the conjecture and wishful thinking of Christian theologians at a later date. It is quite likely that it was born out of some pre-Christian myths of a similar nature, which, when applied to the circumstances of Jesus Christ, tempted them to read close similarities between the two and create a similar myth. However, whatever the mystery or paradox, as we see it, there is no evidence whatsoever that the Christian philosophy of Sin and Atonement was based on anything which Jesus might have said or done or taught. He could never have preached anything so contrary to, and so diametrically opposed to human intellect.
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/christianity_facts_to_fiction/index.html
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/revelation/index.html
http://www.alislam.org/
• All human beings are born innocent. After birth or more pertinently after the age when a person is mature enough to distinguish right from the evil, every person is responsible for his actions sinful or otherwise. If he repents before God for his sins and resolves before Him that he would not do it again; God in his mercy and in his sole discretion could pardon him. If God pardons then the person is like the one who has done no sin.
• All prophets -the perfect men; are innocent and not sinful and that is why they are chosen by God as His messengers to humanity (from Adam to Abraham to Moses to Jesus, from Krishna to Buddha to Muhammad) all prophets of God are respectful persons and innocent and not sinful.
My present submissions are not intended against the factual person Jesus s/o Mary -the perfect human being; but it is intended against the mythical Orthodox Christian faith who deify Jesus and present him as Son of God or God. This is solely done to bring such person to realize the points where they made the mistakes so that they could update their faith based on facts, scientific knowledge, reason and rationality.
I agree on many points with the views of certain moderate Christians who believe that God does not play favorites. He loves all His children equally. No just parent would hold their children accountable for what the children did not know .But unlike the orthodox Christians, the moderate Christians do not believe that people who are not Christians are condemned automatically.Their thinking is very close to the human psyche that has not changed much from the time of Adam to date.
To elaborate the point I present what Mirza Tahir Ahmad has stated on the issue:-
Muslims believe that all divine books are based on eternal truth and none can make any claims contrary to that. When we come across inconsistencies and contradictions in any so called divinely revealed book, our attitude is not that of total denial and rejection but that of cautious and sympathetic examination. Most of the statements of the Old Testament and the New Testament, which we find at variance with the truth of nature, we either try to reconcile by reading some underlying cryptic or metaphoric message, or reject part of the text as the work of human hands rather than that of God.
While Christianity itself was true, it could not have contained any distortions, unacceptable facts or beliefs giving a lie to nature. That is why we started not with the textual examination but with the fundamentals themselves, which through centuries of consensus have become indisputable components of Christian philosophy. Rudimentary among them are the Christian understanding of Sin and Atonement. I would much rather believe that someone, somewhere during the history of Christianity, misunderstood things and tried to interpret them in the light of his knowledge and misled the following generations because of that.
The reader must be reminded here that this concept of inherited sin is only a Pauline misinterpretation. It cannot be rightfully attributed to the teachings of the Old Testament. There is an over-whelming evidence t to the c contrary in many books of the Old Testament.
In the fifth century, Augustine the Bishop of Hippo; was involved in a confrontation with the Pelagian movement, concerning the controversy of the nature of the fall of Adam and Eve. He proclaimed the Pelagian movement as being heretical because it taught that Adam’s sin affected only himself and not the human race as a whole; that every individual is born free of sin and is capable in his own power of living a sinless life and that there had even been persons who had succeeded in doing so.
Those in the right were labeled as heretics. Day was denounced as night and night as day. Heresy is truth and truth heresy.
From the above, it becomes comfortingly clear that the concepts of Inherited Sin and of Crucifixion are based only on the conjecture and wishful thinking of Christian theologians at a later date. It is quite likely that it was born out of some pre-Christian myths of a similar nature, which, when applied to the circumstances of Jesus Christ, tempted them to read close similarities between the two and create a similar myth. However, whatever the mystery or paradox, as we see it, there is no evidence whatsoever that the Christian philosophy of Sin and Atonement was based on anything which Jesus might have said or done or taught. He could never have preached anything so contrary to, and so diametrically opposed to human intellect.
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/christianity_facts_to_fiction/index.html
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/revelation/index.html
http://www.alislam.org/
Sunday, August 17, 2008
sincerely searching for the truth
The advent of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was an epoch making event towards the end of the nineteenth century in the history of comparative religions in the present era.
Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, The Guided One (1835-1908), made it convenient for the human beings be of any race, color or creed to make comparative study of the Revealed Religions of the world and to accept the truth wherever one finds it. He set out many unbiased, neutral and full of wisdom principles for that purpose, the foremost among these is “The claim of a Religion on any topic as well as the logical argumentation should be from its Revealed Book”.
There may be a religion whose followers claim (e.g. Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, and Hinduism, Zoroastrianism or any other religion) that their religion or its teachings are for the whole world. ( i.e. it is international ), but the others may demand the followers of that religion to prove if this claim is explicitly mentioned in your Revealed Book and that if that claim has been supported by divine arguments in your Revealed Book.
This could be easily checked by anyone sincerely searching for the truth or guidance. If a religion on any of the important topics or human problems does not contain the relevant claim or argumentation / reasoning then that religion could be pronounced as a Dead Religion for all practical purposes. (One may remember here that all revealed religions in its origin were truthful; this fact has been highlighted by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad many a times and with great emphases)
We are more concerned with the present era – a dynamic scientific era; where we live in. The humanity is facing very complex problems which must be addressed by the Living Religion of the world if there is any utility in the religion worth the name; any denomination. The religion is for the common as also for the highly literate and since it is claimed to be divine, it should satisfy the common man as also the very literate special man.
The followers of a religion might be very clever and cunning that they could advocate for their religion and could attribute claims to a religion which re not explicitly found in its Revealed Book or they could provide arguments in its favor which are only man-made and not provided by the Divine.
In that case such a religion could be pronounced on its merit, at the most, to be a man-made religion, definitely not sent by God. This could be a litmus test. Verify your religion of your choice on these two simple but wise counts; you might be stunned to realize that many a religion are just myths and its followers are following it only blindfolded.
On his own part Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad set out this epoch making principle in an Inter-Religions Conference in the year 1896 and then he proved that the religion of his choice has claim and arguments on the five basic questions facing by humanity:-
• The Physical, Moral, and Spiritual States of Man.
• What is the State of Man After Death?
• The Object of Man's Life and the Means of its Attainment.
• The Operation of the Practical Ordinances of the Law in This Life and the Next.
• Sources of Divine Knowledge.
The conference had given these questions on which the participant speakers had to speak.
I leave the solutions to the respected readers. Try for the Religion of your choice. Best of luck!
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, The Guided One (1835-1908), made it convenient for the human beings be of any race, color or creed to make comparative study of the Revealed Religions of the world and to accept the truth wherever one finds it. He set out many unbiased, neutral and full of wisdom principles for that purpose, the foremost among these is “The claim of a Religion on any topic as well as the logical argumentation should be from its Revealed Book”.
There may be a religion whose followers claim (e.g. Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, and Hinduism, Zoroastrianism or any other religion) that their religion or its teachings are for the whole world. ( i.e. it is international ), but the others may demand the followers of that religion to prove if this claim is explicitly mentioned in your Revealed Book and that if that claim has been supported by divine arguments in your Revealed Book.
This could be easily checked by anyone sincerely searching for the truth or guidance. If a religion on any of the important topics or human problems does not contain the relevant claim or argumentation / reasoning then that religion could be pronounced as a Dead Religion for all practical purposes. (One may remember here that all revealed religions in its origin were truthful; this fact has been highlighted by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad many a times and with great emphases)
We are more concerned with the present era – a dynamic scientific era; where we live in. The humanity is facing very complex problems which must be addressed by the Living Religion of the world if there is any utility in the religion worth the name; any denomination. The religion is for the common as also for the highly literate and since it is claimed to be divine, it should satisfy the common man as also the very literate special man.
The followers of a religion might be very clever and cunning that they could advocate for their religion and could attribute claims to a religion which re not explicitly found in its Revealed Book or they could provide arguments in its favor which are only man-made and not provided by the Divine.
In that case such a religion could be pronounced on its merit, at the most, to be a man-made religion, definitely not sent by God. This could be a litmus test. Verify your religion of your choice on these two simple but wise counts; you might be stunned to realize that many a religion are just myths and its followers are following it only blindfolded.
On his own part Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad set out this epoch making principle in an Inter-Religions Conference in the year 1896 and then he proved that the religion of his choice has claim and arguments on the five basic questions facing by humanity:-
• The Physical, Moral, and Spiritual States of Man.
• What is the State of Man After Death?
• The Object of Man's Life and the Means of its Attainment.
• The Operation of the Practical Ordinances of the Law in This Life and the Next.
• Sources of Divine Knowledge.
The conference had given these questions on which the participant speakers had to speak.
I leave the solutions to the respected readers. Try for the Religion of your choice. Best of luck!
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
Saturday, August 16, 2008
Bible 63,779 Cross-Reference Visualizations
Hi
Thanks for visiting my blogsite (by jpmccusker> http://subluminal.wordpress.com/ http://subluminal.wordpress.com/author/jpmccusker/). I believe there has to be essentially no contradiction between Science and Religion; both seem to be complimentary and not contradictary of one another.
There is no contradiction in Religion and Science; as both are modes of human virtual travel into the unseen realm in a sense; the later in the physical and secular realm only while the earlier goes deep in the meaning, purpose, characteristics, attributes, morals and spiritual. They are complementary not contradictory. One is the Word of GodAllahYHWH while the other is Work of Him. Both created by Him. If we fall short of at times understanding the Work of God, the same way we may misunderstand the other; the fault is always on our side as to err is human, and to shift it on the side of GodAllahYHWH would be naturally inhuman.
What is the cure to this scenario? Just to improve our understanding with the available appropriate tools in the relative realm. With more experiments and experiences we could improve and photo-finish our understanding.
Maybe what we consider as a scientific reality as laymen, is not a scientific reality in the eye of RealScientists; it is an idea, an opinion, a hypothesis, or a theory not yet ripe enough to be a law on merit; so naturally it should not correspond with the Word of GodAllahYHWH.
Human error could play havoc with the Word also. A priest, the fake one of course, may not and must not be able to understand the Word correctly so it would not and must not match with the ScientificLaws, resulting into an apparent ambiguity, which is not there in reality, it is our own personal or collective illusion for the most part.
This is what I think. Your opinions/comments are welcome.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
About Subluminal
Science is, above anything else, a human endeavor. The best of science writing shows this, and the humanity of the authors and subjects shows through. Too much of science that is learned in the classroom sets itself apart from this. Brilliant jokesters are given a veneer of respectability so that we aren’t biased by their common decency. This is good, but it also takes the passion out of one of the most passionate endeavors we can conduct. So, this blog is going to be as well-written as we can manage, express the humanity and energy that exists in the fields that we will talk about, and try to be entertaining and engaging. We will talk about good science (with a view to promoting it) and bad science (with a view to improving it).
Let’s see how this goes.
Please view their post titled: “Cross-Reference Visualizations”:
Bible Cross-References: The bar graph that runs along the bottom represents all of the chapters in the Bible. Books alternate in color between white and light gray. The length of each bar denotes the number of verses in the chapter. Each of the 63,779 cross references found in the Bible is depicted by a single arc - the color corresponds to the distance between the two chapters, creating a rainbow-like effect.
This is a pretty cool visualization of bible cross-references that was developed by Chris Harrison to show bible cross references throughout the length of the bible. I can’t help but think of how interesting this could be for genome visualization: the cross references could be based on genes that are transcription factors for other genes. (activate or deactivate those genes). Chris has lots of other fascinating visualization projects to look at, and is very stimulating to browse it.
August 15, 2008 - Posted by jpmccusker Science, Visualization cross-references, religion, Visualization http://subluminal.wordpress.com/author/jpmccusker/
http://www.chrisharrison.net/projects/bibleviz/index.html chris.harrison@cs.cmu.edu
Thanks for visiting my blogsite (by jpmccusker> http://subluminal.wordpress.com/ http://subluminal.wordpress.com/author/jpmccusker/). I believe there has to be essentially no contradiction between Science and Religion; both seem to be complimentary and not contradictary of one another.
There is no contradiction in Religion and Science; as both are modes of human virtual travel into the unseen realm in a sense; the later in the physical and secular realm only while the earlier goes deep in the meaning, purpose, characteristics, attributes, morals and spiritual. They are complementary not contradictory. One is the Word of GodAllahYHWH while the other is Work of Him. Both created by Him. If we fall short of at times understanding the Work of God, the same way we may misunderstand the other; the fault is always on our side as to err is human, and to shift it on the side of GodAllahYHWH would be naturally inhuman.
What is the cure to this scenario? Just to improve our understanding with the available appropriate tools in the relative realm. With more experiments and experiences we could improve and photo-finish our understanding.
Maybe what we consider as a scientific reality as laymen, is not a scientific reality in the eye of RealScientists; it is an idea, an opinion, a hypothesis, or a theory not yet ripe enough to be a law on merit; so naturally it should not correspond with the Word of GodAllahYHWH.
Human error could play havoc with the Word also. A priest, the fake one of course, may not and must not be able to understand the Word correctly so it would not and must not match with the ScientificLaws, resulting into an apparent ambiguity, which is not there in reality, it is our own personal or collective illusion for the most part.
This is what I think. Your opinions/comments are welcome.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
About Subluminal
Science is, above anything else, a human endeavor. The best of science writing shows this, and the humanity of the authors and subjects shows through. Too much of science that is learned in the classroom sets itself apart from this. Brilliant jokesters are given a veneer of respectability so that we aren’t biased by their common decency. This is good, but it also takes the passion out of one of the most passionate endeavors we can conduct. So, this blog is going to be as well-written as we can manage, express the humanity and energy that exists in the fields that we will talk about, and try to be entertaining and engaging. We will talk about good science (with a view to promoting it) and bad science (with a view to improving it).
Let’s see how this goes.
Please view their post titled: “Cross-Reference Visualizations”:
Bible Cross-References: The bar graph that runs along the bottom represents all of the chapters in the Bible. Books alternate in color between white and light gray. The length of each bar denotes the number of verses in the chapter. Each of the 63,779 cross references found in the Bible is depicted by a single arc - the color corresponds to the distance between the two chapters, creating a rainbow-like effect.
This is a pretty cool visualization of bible cross-references that was developed by Chris Harrison to show bible cross references throughout the length of the bible. I can’t help but think of how interesting this could be for genome visualization: the cross references could be based on genes that are transcription factors for other genes. (activate or deactivate those genes). Chris has lots of other fascinating visualization projects to look at, and is very stimulating to browse it.
August 15, 2008 - Posted by jpmccusker Science, Visualization cross-references, religion, Visualization http://subluminal.wordpress.com/author/jpmccusker/
http://www.chrisharrison.net/projects/bibleviz/index.html chris.harrison@cs.cmu.edu
Friday, August 15, 2008
Jesus cannot atone possibly
The atonement and the related issues have been discussed by Hazrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad and analyzed as under:-
How could Jesus be born innocent when he had a human mother? If the sin of Adam and Eve had polluted the entire progeny of this unfortunate couple, then as a natural consequence, all male and female children must inherit the same genetic propensity to sin.
Females were perhaps more likely to because it was Eve who as the instrument of Satan enticed Adam. Therefore, the responsibility of sin falls squarely on the shoulders of Eve rather than of Adam.
In the case of the birth of Christ, obviously it was a daughter of Eve who contributed the major share. The question that very powerfully arises is whether Jesus inherited any gene bearing chromosomes from his human mother or not. If he did so, then it was impossible for him to escape the inevitable inherited sin. If he did not inherit any chromosomes from his mother either, then indeed that birth would be doubly miraculous.
Only a miracle could produce a son who neither belongs to his father nor to his mother. What remains incomprehensible is why those chromosomes, provided by Eve, did not carry the innate tendency to sin to the child Jesus.
Suppose it happened somehow, and Jesus had that innocence needed to carry the sins of mankind, on condition that they believed in him and not otherwise, another problem would arise: what happened, one may ask, to the progeny of Adam and Eve that died before the dawn of Christianity? How many billions of them might have got scattered throughout the world over five continents generation after generation. They must have lived and died without hope or even the possibility of ever hearing about the Christ their Saviour who was not yet born.
In fact the entire humanity between Adam and Christ seemed certainly to be doomed for ever. Why were they never given even a remote chance to be forgiven? Would they be forgiven retrospectively, by Jesus Christ? If so, why?
In other parts of the world, much larger by comparison to the tiny land of Judea, where people had never heard of Christianity even during the life time of Jesus Christ, what happens to them? They never did, nor ever could, believe in the ‘Sonship’ of Jesus Christ. Will their sins go unpunished or will they be punished? If they go unpunished, for what reason? If they are punished, again by what logic? What chance did they have anyway? They were totally helpless. What a distorted sense of absolute justice!
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/christianity_facts_to_fiction/index.html
How could Jesus be born innocent when he had a human mother? If the sin of Adam and Eve had polluted the entire progeny of this unfortunate couple, then as a natural consequence, all male and female children must inherit the same genetic propensity to sin.
Females were perhaps more likely to because it was Eve who as the instrument of Satan enticed Adam. Therefore, the responsibility of sin falls squarely on the shoulders of Eve rather than of Adam.
In the case of the birth of Christ, obviously it was a daughter of Eve who contributed the major share. The question that very powerfully arises is whether Jesus inherited any gene bearing chromosomes from his human mother or not. If he did so, then it was impossible for him to escape the inevitable inherited sin. If he did not inherit any chromosomes from his mother either, then indeed that birth would be doubly miraculous.
Only a miracle could produce a son who neither belongs to his father nor to his mother. What remains incomprehensible is why those chromosomes, provided by Eve, did not carry the innate tendency to sin to the child Jesus.
Suppose it happened somehow, and Jesus had that innocence needed to carry the sins of mankind, on condition that they believed in him and not otherwise, another problem would arise: what happened, one may ask, to the progeny of Adam and Eve that died before the dawn of Christianity? How many billions of them might have got scattered throughout the world over five continents generation after generation. They must have lived and died without hope or even the possibility of ever hearing about the Christ their Saviour who was not yet born.
In fact the entire humanity between Adam and Christ seemed certainly to be doomed for ever. Why were they never given even a remote chance to be forgiven? Would they be forgiven retrospectively, by Jesus Christ? If so, why?
In other parts of the world, much larger by comparison to the tiny land of Judea, where people had never heard of Christianity even during the life time of Jesus Christ, what happens to them? They never did, nor ever could, believe in the ‘Sonship’ of Jesus Christ. Will their sins go unpunished or will they be punished? If they go unpunished, for what reason? If they are punished, again by what logic? What chance did they have anyway? They were totally helpless. What a distorted sense of absolute justice!
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/christianity_facts_to_fiction/index.html
Jesus for Jews; not for Christians - the gentiles
Paarsurrey says:
Hi Bud Press!
Thanks for your remarks on my above comments. Sorry, I don't agree with your following points mentioned by you.
“Jesus Christ died for you on the cross (Romans 5:6-9).”
“Salvation and eternal life cannot be obtained through world religions such as, Animism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, or cults such as Jehovah’s Witnesses or Mormonism. Your salvation and eternal welfare rests in the Jesus Christ of the Bible.”
Firstly, Jesus never died a cursed death on the Cross, in my opinion; and secondly, there is no relationship between the sins one commits and the death of a third person for the sins of another person.
Maybe you like to read my following posts in this connection:
http://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/wp-admin/post.php?action=edit&post=163
http://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/wp-admin/post.php?action=edit&post=67
I love Jesus, Mary and Muhammad
Regards
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
In response to remarks of of our friend Bud Press dated August 15, 2008 at 9:22 am
http://kimolsen.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/discerning-gods-word-study/
“Jesus Christ died for you on the cross (Romans 5:6-9):”
“Salvation and eternal life cannot be obtained through world religions such as, Animism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, or cults such as Jehovah’s Witnesses or Mormonism. Your salvation and eternal welfare rests in the Jesus Christ of the Bible:”
Hi Bud Press!
Thanks for your remarks on my above comments. Sorry, I don't agree with your following points mentioned by you.
“Jesus Christ died for you on the cross (Romans 5:6-9).”
“Salvation and eternal life cannot be obtained through world religions such as, Animism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, or cults such as Jehovah’s Witnesses or Mormonism. Your salvation and eternal welfare rests in the Jesus Christ of the Bible.”
Firstly, Jesus never died a cursed death on the Cross, in my opinion; and secondly, there is no relationship between the sins one commits and the death of a third person for the sins of another person.
Maybe you like to read my following posts in this connection:
http://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/wp-admin/post.php?action=edit&post=163
http://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/wp-admin/post.php?action=edit&post=67
I love Jesus, Mary and Muhammad
Regards
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
In response to remarks of of our friend Bud Press dated August 15, 2008 at 9:22 am
http://kimolsen.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/discerning-gods-word-study/
“Jesus Christ died for you on the cross (Romans 5:6-9):”
“Salvation and eternal life cannot be obtained through world religions such as, Animism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, or cults such as Jehovah’s Witnesses or Mormonism. Your salvation and eternal welfare rests in the Jesus Christ of the Bible:”
Thursday, August 14, 2008
a virgin can give natural birth to a human son
Jesus s/o Mary was born without a father. This fact has perplexed many a persons, with the result that some have even resorted to deifying him and believing that he was Son of God or God, just because of this unusual but natural birth. In fact, as per their own belief, based on OT, Adam was also born not only without a father but even without a mother, if unusual birth of Jesus makes him Son of God or God ,as they say mere in superstition and myth , then they should deify Adam logically double-fold and also deify Eve double-fold . Now if we admit this logic there have become two sons of God and one daughter of God and if as they say that Jesus was a perfect man and perfect God, we shall have 3 Gods+ two Sons of God one Daughter of god; and that would be without having wife by God and all these human beings would become perfect humans and also perfect God as the logic goes.
But this is all illogical, as in Old Testament Son of God etc is mentioned only metaphorically and symbolically; meaning thereby the most loved ones by God having some authority from God as Adam was made by Him on his image i.e. like Him. Since Jesus followed Torah so he clearly spoke of the usage of OT, if and whenever he spoke these words.
Then the matter of born ;without a father does not end there, there are at least two other instances quoted by history in this regards which tell s that Changes Khan was also born of a Virgin and a Chinese Monarch who founded a dynasty was also born of a Virgin; these Virgins also had dreams more oo less of similar in nature to that of Mary; that they would give birth to sons without a father.
But that is of folklore and/or from the sources of history; and not based on scientific research or scientific study. Here we mention a scientific study/research whereby the possibility of virgins giving births to sons is discussed, as mentioned by Mirza Tahir Ahmad:
So how was Christ born?
We understand that research on the subject of single mother birth without the participation of a male is being carried out in many advanced countries of the world. But so far human knowledge is only at a stage where scientific research has not yet advanced to such a level where positive irrefutable evidence of virgin births in human beings can be produced. However, all sorts of possibilities remain open.At lower orders of life two phenomena are scientifically well established:
Parthenogenesis and Hermaphroditism.
As such, the miraculous birth of Jesus, to Mary, can be understood to belong to some similar natural but very rare phenomenon, the peripheries of which are not yet fully fathomed by man.Here follow brief descriptions of the phenomena of Parthenogenesis and Hermaphroditism. Parthenogenesis - This is the asexual development of a female ovum into an individual, without the aid of a male agent. It is observed among many lower forms of life such as aphids and also fish. There is also evidence that parthenogenesis can be a successful strategy among lizards living under low and unpredictable rainfall conditions.
In laboratory conditions, mice and rabbit embryos have been developed parthenogenetically to a stage equivalent to halfway through pregnancy, but have then been aborted. In recent study, human embryos could be activated occasionally by parthenogenesis using calcium ionophore as a catalyst. Such research raises the prospect that some early human pregnancy losses may have involved the parthenogenetic activation of the embryo.
Hermaphroditism -This term applies when organs of both sexes are present within a single female and the chromosomes show both male and female characters aligned side by side. Laboratory tests have revealed cases such as that of a hermaphrodite rabbit which, at one stage, served several females and sired more than 250 young of both sexes, while at another stage, became pregnant in isolation and gave birth to seven healthy young of both sexes. When autopsied, it showed two functional ovaries and two infertile testes while in a pregnant condition.
Recent studies suggest that such a phenomenon is possible, rarely, among humans also.Please don’t mix up with paradoxes, God could create whatever he pleases, but for that He needs no wife. Creations of every thing physical and spiritual in the Universe, God just created these things, simple as that, but of course without a partner or wife.
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/christianity_facts_to_fiction/index.html
I don't think there is any logical or rational reason of creating a god out of a human being like Jesus.
But this is all illogical, as in Old Testament Son of God etc is mentioned only metaphorically and symbolically; meaning thereby the most loved ones by God having some authority from God as Adam was made by Him on his image i.e. like Him. Since Jesus followed Torah so he clearly spoke of the usage of OT, if and whenever he spoke these words.
Then the matter of born ;without a father does not end there, there are at least two other instances quoted by history in this regards which tell s that Changes Khan was also born of a Virgin and a Chinese Monarch who founded a dynasty was also born of a Virgin; these Virgins also had dreams more oo less of similar in nature to that of Mary; that they would give birth to sons without a father.
But that is of folklore and/or from the sources of history; and not based on scientific research or scientific study. Here we mention a scientific study/research whereby the possibility of virgins giving births to sons is discussed, as mentioned by Mirza Tahir Ahmad:
So how was Christ born?
We understand that research on the subject of single mother birth without the participation of a male is being carried out in many advanced countries of the world. But so far human knowledge is only at a stage where scientific research has not yet advanced to such a level where positive irrefutable evidence of virgin births in human beings can be produced. However, all sorts of possibilities remain open.At lower orders of life two phenomena are scientifically well established:
Parthenogenesis and Hermaphroditism.
As such, the miraculous birth of Jesus, to Mary, can be understood to belong to some similar natural but very rare phenomenon, the peripheries of which are not yet fully fathomed by man.Here follow brief descriptions of the phenomena of Parthenogenesis and Hermaphroditism. Parthenogenesis - This is the asexual development of a female ovum into an individual, without the aid of a male agent. It is observed among many lower forms of life such as aphids and also fish. There is also evidence that parthenogenesis can be a successful strategy among lizards living under low and unpredictable rainfall conditions.
In laboratory conditions, mice and rabbit embryos have been developed parthenogenetically to a stage equivalent to halfway through pregnancy, but have then been aborted. In recent study, human embryos could be activated occasionally by parthenogenesis using calcium ionophore as a catalyst. Such research raises the prospect that some early human pregnancy losses may have involved the parthenogenetic activation of the embryo.
Hermaphroditism -This term applies when organs of both sexes are present within a single female and the chromosomes show both male and female characters aligned side by side. Laboratory tests have revealed cases such as that of a hermaphrodite rabbit which, at one stage, served several females and sired more than 250 young of both sexes, while at another stage, became pregnant in isolation and gave birth to seven healthy young of both sexes. When autopsied, it showed two functional ovaries and two infertile testes while in a pregnant condition.
Recent studies suggest that such a phenomenon is possible, rarely, among humans also.Please don’t mix up with paradoxes, God could create whatever he pleases, but for that He needs no wife. Creations of every thing physical and spiritual in the Universe, God just created these things, simple as that, but of course without a partner or wife.
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/christianity_facts_to_fiction/index.html
I don't think there is any logical or rational reason of creating a god out of a human being like Jesus.
Tuesday, August 12, 2008
The truth about NTBible ,
Paarsurrey Says:
Hi
The truth about NTBible is that:
1. JesusYeshuaIssa did not leave the Word of God or anything in writing revealed on him from GodAllahYHWH in the form of stone tablets as was in the case of Moses.
2. Or anything written by JesusYeshuaIssa himself as a biography when he left from Galilee, after the incident of Crucifixion, alongwith his mother Mary in search of the lost ten tribes of the house of Israel, he died natural and peaceful death in Kashmir, India.
3. Jesus left nothing behind authenticated by him, in possession of the Church, as there was none in existence.
4. We do respect the NTGospels which have account of Jesus life, but it does not have much utility for a non-Catholic except that we may treat it as a book of history subject to scrutiny, internal as well as external, for each bit of event for finding truth in it on merit.
There are about 120+ writers who wrote a sort of history books about the time of Jesus, that could be logically accepted as a historical source and truth could be searched out of it like we do from other sources of history on merit of each bit of event unbiased. All these 120+ books must be treated at par but unfortunately some have been selected by the clergy and are known as NTBible while others have been discarded. This shows their bias.
The historians should come forward and sift the material for truth, if found, on equal footing from all of these 120+ books, with reason, rationality and valid arguments acceptable to the whole world, as these are claimed to be Universal by our Protestant/Catholic friends.
I respect your religion but I think I could form my own opinion freely. My Christian friends may remain steadfast on what they believe, no compulsion, and that is their own free will.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
The above comments made by paarsurrey on the blogsite of > http://christian-blog.org/ on the article titled “OH, HOW IMPORTANT IS MY BIBLE? The most important book in our lives” written by Pastor Tom Tennant, Vision Baptist Church, Jackson, Ohio. It was displayed on the blogsite that “Your comment was successfully added.”, however the same has not been displayed and moderated by them later. I don’t mind, it is their discretion.
http://christian-blog.org/index.php?/archives/78-OH,-HOW-IMPORTANT-IS-MY-BIBLE-The-most-important-book-in-our-lives.html
Hi
The truth about NTBible is that:
1. JesusYeshuaIssa did not leave the Word of God or anything in writing revealed on him from GodAllahYHWH in the form of stone tablets as was in the case of Moses.
2. Or anything written by JesusYeshuaIssa himself as a biography when he left from Galilee, after the incident of Crucifixion, alongwith his mother Mary in search of the lost ten tribes of the house of Israel, he died natural and peaceful death in Kashmir, India.
3. Jesus left nothing behind authenticated by him, in possession of the Church, as there was none in existence.
4. We do respect the NTGospels which have account of Jesus life, but it does not have much utility for a non-Catholic except that we may treat it as a book of history subject to scrutiny, internal as well as external, for each bit of event for finding truth in it on merit.
There are about 120+ writers who wrote a sort of history books about the time of Jesus, that could be logically accepted as a historical source and truth could be searched out of it like we do from other sources of history on merit of each bit of event unbiased. All these 120+ books must be treated at par but unfortunately some have been selected by the clergy and are known as NTBible while others have been discarded. This shows their bias.
The historians should come forward and sift the material for truth, if found, on equal footing from all of these 120+ books, with reason, rationality and valid arguments acceptable to the whole world, as these are claimed to be Universal by our Protestant/Catholic friends.
I respect your religion but I think I could form my own opinion freely. My Christian friends may remain steadfast on what they believe, no compulsion, and that is their own free will.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
The above comments made by paarsurrey on the blogsite of > http://christian-blog.org/ on the article titled “OH, HOW IMPORTANT IS MY BIBLE? The most important book in our lives” written by Pastor Tom Tennant, Vision Baptist Church, Jackson, Ohio. It was displayed on the blogsite that “Your comment was successfully added.”, however the same has not been displayed and moderated by them later. I don’t mind, it is their discretion.
http://christian-blog.org/index.php?/archives/78-OH,-HOW-IMPORTANT-IS-MY-BIBLE-The-most-important-book-in-our-lives.html
Thursday, August 7, 2008
Was Kashmir last destination of Christ?
I just want to familiarise the viewers of this blog with some research continuing in different parts of the world and among followers of different religions on the issue of “Jesus did not die a cursed death on Cross but he died in India”.
This one is with the courtesy of: AsiaTtribune:http://www.asiantribune.com/?q=node/9291
For public benefit.
Was Kashmir last destination of Christ?
Sat, 2008-01-26 03:08By J. N. Raina - Syndicate Features
Did Jesus Christ die on the cross? Or did he migrate to Kashmir after his crucifixion, and lived there till his ripe age of 125? This belief, prevalent in Kashmir for ages, led to the influx of over 1600 Israeli tourists to the terrorist-infested valley last summer. Their main attraction: graves of Christ and Moses. The inquisitive tourists— ignoring the caveat, issued in Jerusalem recently on Jammu and Kashmir— flocked to the valley to see the tomb of Christ at Rozabal , Srinagar, and of Moses near Bandipore town in north Kashmir.
Numerous books have been published on Christ, some of them claiming that Jesus Christ had visited the land, which later came to be known as Kashmir, or Cashmire, its ancient name. Researchers have suggested that Jesus lies buried at Rozabal.
Aziz Kashmiri, a Srinagar-based editor of Urdu daily ‘Roshni’, has in his book “Christ in Kashmir” claimed that Kashmiris’ ancestors were one of the lost tribes of Israel, and that Jesus died in Kashmir. He has quoted numerous authors and scholars to prove his point that Christ had died in Srinagar. Aziz , who was my journalist colleague in Srinagar, before I migrated to Mumbai in 1990, had told me that his 30 years of research work on the subject had led him to believe that Christ did not die on the cross as stated in the Bible. ‘In fact, he had recovered from his wounds and fled from Palestine to Kashmir, until he died at the age of 125 or so’. This belief, however, is not corroborated by the Quran. People in general do not buy this theory.
The tomb lies in Srinagar in an underground room. There is also a black stone in a corner, which is said to have the signs of the foot- prints of Christ. A similar stone exists in Jerusalem. In October 1967, Muhammad Zafrullah Khan, the then judge of the International Court of Justice, during his speech in Toronto (Canada) said Christ did not die on the cross, but had fainted and thereafter migrated from Palestine to Kashmir via Afghanistan. “He died there and was buried in Srinagar”, he said, arousing interest of the world media.
Some other authors have made similar claim as quoted by Aziz, that the lost tribes of Jews had made their way to Kashmir and settled there. Moses also lies buried in Kashmir. Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, founder of the Ahmadiyya movement, revealed in 1890 that Christ did not die on the cross. He has written a comprehensive book ‘Izalah Auham’ and quoted from the Bible and the Holy Quran, saying that Christ escaped the ‘accursed death’ on the cross and set out secretly from Palestine in search of the lost tribes of Israel.
Quoting ancient scriptures, Ghulam Ahmad says “History bears evidence that in 721 BC, Sargon II captured the kingdom of Israel. The Jews were captured and exiled. Most of them went to Iran and Afghanistan and some of them went to India to settle in Kashmir. Jesus Christ, in order to fulfil his ‘divine mission’, visited them and finally at the age of 125 died in Kashmir”.
Evidence from the Buddhist sources has established that Christ came to India to fulfil the prophecy of Lord Buddha that after 500 years of his nirvana, ‘another Buddha would come and revive his true teachings.” In 1899, Khalifa Noor al-Din of Jalalpur (Gujarat), who had lived in Kashmir, pointed out that there existed in Srinagar a tomb of a Prophet, Yus Asaf or ‘ Isa Sahib’, who came to Kashmir from a foreign country.
Aziz Kashmiri quoted Hazrat Mirza as saying in his book “Masih Hindustan main” that evidence is available on Christ’s escape from the death on the cross and his travel towards Eastern countries. Mirza has evaluated evidence from more than 33 books of Materia Medica, that carry formula of ‘ marham-i-Isa’ ( Jesus ointment) and shows it was the same ointment which was applied to the wounds of Christ ,caused by nailing him on the cross.
Historian Muhammad Din Fauq, author of many books on Kashmir, has said that ‘in Kashmir, Malik tribe is in majority. They are Bani Israel. Their great ancestor was Qasis, who was ancestor of Afghan tribe, a contemporary of Prophet Muhammad. According to Bernier, there are many marks of Judaism to be found in Kashmir.’ The inhabitants in the frontier villages struck me as resembling Jews’.
According to the ‘Encyclopaedia of America’, Dr Gibs Felentener (1548-1611) has identified Tartars with the lost ten tribes. Dr Froncios Bernier ( 1620-1688 ) speculates on the Kashmiris as descendents of the lost ten tribes, from certain customs and rites, and prevailing type of facial features, as also of the Afghans and the Tajiks of Badakshan being distinctly Hebraic’The tomb of Moses is located on a mountain called ‘Booth’ in Bandipore. According to Aziz, the Bible confirms the fact that Moses passed away in Bandipore, which was known as Bethpoer in olden days. Prophet Jacob, says Bible, was called Israel by God, due to his bravery.
“Thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name” (Genesis, 35:10). Prophet Jacob had 12 sons: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, Benjamin, Dan, Nephtali, Gad and Asher (Genesis, 35:23-26). They became the founders of 12 tribes of Israel, who are called Bani Israel (sons of Israel) or the ‘chosen sons of God’. They spread rapidly in Egypt, Syria, Palestine and other parts. But when cruel kings, including Nebuchadnezzar (597 BC) invaded, killed and enslaved them, only two tribes remained in Palestine and other ten were forced to migrate from Palestine. Some settled in Afghanistan, others in Balakh, Bukhara and Tibet and most of them reached North India through Central Asia and settled in Kashmir.
According to Pandit Hargopal Koul’s ‘Guldasta-I-Kashmir’, Kashmiri Pandits are the highest class of Aryans. Pandit Ram Chand Kak, former prime minister of Jammu and Kashmir during Maharaja Hari Singh’s rule, ‘Moses is a very common name in Kashmir…. There are many castes and tribes among Muslims and Hindus, which are mentioned in the Bible. Their ways and habits, features, shapes, morals, and character resemble those of Israelis. At Bijbehara near Anantnag town, there is a stone called ‘ka ka pal’ (ka in Kashmiri means eleven) resembling eleven tribes of Israel. Such a stone is also at Baramulla.
Civil servant turned writer -Kashmiriologist, Pervez Dewan, in his latest book, comments: “There can be no doubt that Jews used to visit ancient pre-Islamic Kashmir at the rate of one or two visitors a year. They were particularly honoured guests. This explains their stamp on some aspects of Kashmiri life. Some of them must have settled in Kashmir and accepted Hinduism (and later Islam). That explains why some Kashmiris have the ‘prominent noses’ that have intrigued European travellers so much.” His study also highlights Hebrew words in the Kashmiri language and makes a pointed reference some Jewish customs, food habits and beliefs found in Kashmir.
On the specific question - about the visit of Lord Jesus and Prophet Moses, Dewan banks on the manuscripts of the Bhavishya Maha Puran, Mullah Nadiri’s Tareekh-e-Kashmir and an ancient Buddhist manuscript in the Hemis caves in Ladakh. “If these documents have not been tampered with, then there can be no doubt but that Lord Jesus had lived for at least a while in Kashmir and Ladakh,” he concludes.
According to St Mark, there are discrepancies in the Gospels about the hour when Jesus was crucified. “Jesus did not die on the cross, as is the popular belief, but in fact he had fainted. The evidence which points to this are the Gospels, all of which stated that Jesus was taken down from the cross at the 9th hour, for the other day was Sabbath day. In those days, bodies could not remain on the cross on Sabbath.”
The historians of those days are a witness to the fact that no one died on the cross within such a short time, but normally were left to suffer for many days”, says Aziz.” When Jesus was taken down from the cross, he was actually dead faint, and people thought he was dead. “What happened afterwards is simple…..he was taken to a cave-like structure where he was rubbed with Marham Isa, an ointment to heal wounds, which is still in use. When he recovered, some three days later, he was disguised as a gardener (the same gardener Mary saw) as his friends were afraid that Pilate would see him and realize that he was really alive.
Jesus did escape from his enemies and he was eventually given shelter at another place, of which a complete description is given. Kashmir is the only place which fits in that description. According to the Quran, “there he lived, carried on his preachings and died.” A group of German scientists had carried out investigations regarding the shroud of Christ. The outcome of the research has shown that 2000 year old shroud of Christ has been found in the Italian town of Turin. They made their discovery known to the Pope then, but he reportedly said nothing.
Thomas was the twin brother of Christ (Dictionary of Bible by Hastings, Vol IV, 753, also John 20:24). Thomas in Hebrew means twin. This very person, whose name in Ikmal al-Din, Arabic history, written some 1000 years after, appears as Babad (which also means a twin) buried Christ after his natural death.
Avatar Meher Baba too asserts in his discourses that Jesus had visited to Kashmir valley and that after the crucifixion the body of Jesus was brought to Kashmir for burial.
Kashmir’s first written historical work ‘The Rajatarangini’ has also referred unambiguously to a Christ-like seer who was crucified by a Herod-like king and who lived in and ruled over Kashmir, possibly in the 1st century AD. In any case, there’s an enormous amount of circumstantial evidence that indicates that Jesus and Moses might have come to Kashmir.
- Syndicate Features -
Unquote
The viewers/readers should form their own opinion and accept truth when satisfied.
Thanks
paarsurrey
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
This one is with the courtesy of: AsiaTtribune:http://www.asiantribune.com/?q=node/9291
For public benefit.
Was Kashmir last destination of Christ?
Sat, 2008-01-26 03:08By J. N. Raina - Syndicate Features
Did Jesus Christ die on the cross? Or did he migrate to Kashmir after his crucifixion, and lived there till his ripe age of 125? This belief, prevalent in Kashmir for ages, led to the influx of over 1600 Israeli tourists to the terrorist-infested valley last summer. Their main attraction: graves of Christ and Moses. The inquisitive tourists— ignoring the caveat, issued in Jerusalem recently on Jammu and Kashmir— flocked to the valley to see the tomb of Christ at Rozabal , Srinagar, and of Moses near Bandipore town in north Kashmir.
Numerous books have been published on Christ, some of them claiming that Jesus Christ had visited the land, which later came to be known as Kashmir, or Cashmire, its ancient name. Researchers have suggested that Jesus lies buried at Rozabal.
Aziz Kashmiri, a Srinagar-based editor of Urdu daily ‘Roshni’, has in his book “Christ in Kashmir” claimed that Kashmiris’ ancestors were one of the lost tribes of Israel, and that Jesus died in Kashmir. He has quoted numerous authors and scholars to prove his point that Christ had died in Srinagar. Aziz , who was my journalist colleague in Srinagar, before I migrated to Mumbai in 1990, had told me that his 30 years of research work on the subject had led him to believe that Christ did not die on the cross as stated in the Bible. ‘In fact, he had recovered from his wounds and fled from Palestine to Kashmir, until he died at the age of 125 or so’. This belief, however, is not corroborated by the Quran. People in general do not buy this theory.
The tomb lies in Srinagar in an underground room. There is also a black stone in a corner, which is said to have the signs of the foot- prints of Christ. A similar stone exists in Jerusalem. In October 1967, Muhammad Zafrullah Khan, the then judge of the International Court of Justice, during his speech in Toronto (Canada) said Christ did not die on the cross, but had fainted and thereafter migrated from Palestine to Kashmir via Afghanistan. “He died there and was buried in Srinagar”, he said, arousing interest of the world media.
Some other authors have made similar claim as quoted by Aziz, that the lost tribes of Jews had made their way to Kashmir and settled there. Moses also lies buried in Kashmir. Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, founder of the Ahmadiyya movement, revealed in 1890 that Christ did not die on the cross. He has written a comprehensive book ‘Izalah Auham’ and quoted from the Bible and the Holy Quran, saying that Christ escaped the ‘accursed death’ on the cross and set out secretly from Palestine in search of the lost tribes of Israel.
Quoting ancient scriptures, Ghulam Ahmad says “History bears evidence that in 721 BC, Sargon II captured the kingdom of Israel. The Jews were captured and exiled. Most of them went to Iran and Afghanistan and some of them went to India to settle in Kashmir. Jesus Christ, in order to fulfil his ‘divine mission’, visited them and finally at the age of 125 died in Kashmir”.
Evidence from the Buddhist sources has established that Christ came to India to fulfil the prophecy of Lord Buddha that after 500 years of his nirvana, ‘another Buddha would come and revive his true teachings.” In 1899, Khalifa Noor al-Din of Jalalpur (Gujarat), who had lived in Kashmir, pointed out that there existed in Srinagar a tomb of a Prophet, Yus Asaf or ‘ Isa Sahib’, who came to Kashmir from a foreign country.
Aziz Kashmiri quoted Hazrat Mirza as saying in his book “Masih Hindustan main” that evidence is available on Christ’s escape from the death on the cross and his travel towards Eastern countries. Mirza has evaluated evidence from more than 33 books of Materia Medica, that carry formula of ‘ marham-i-Isa’ ( Jesus ointment) and shows it was the same ointment which was applied to the wounds of Christ ,caused by nailing him on the cross.
Historian Muhammad Din Fauq, author of many books on Kashmir, has said that ‘in Kashmir, Malik tribe is in majority. They are Bani Israel. Their great ancestor was Qasis, who was ancestor of Afghan tribe, a contemporary of Prophet Muhammad. According to Bernier, there are many marks of Judaism to be found in Kashmir.’ The inhabitants in the frontier villages struck me as resembling Jews’.
According to the ‘Encyclopaedia of America’, Dr Gibs Felentener (1548-1611) has identified Tartars with the lost ten tribes. Dr Froncios Bernier ( 1620-1688 ) speculates on the Kashmiris as descendents of the lost ten tribes, from certain customs and rites, and prevailing type of facial features, as also of the Afghans and the Tajiks of Badakshan being distinctly Hebraic’The tomb of Moses is located on a mountain called ‘Booth’ in Bandipore. According to Aziz, the Bible confirms the fact that Moses passed away in Bandipore, which was known as Bethpoer in olden days. Prophet Jacob, says Bible, was called Israel by God, due to his bravery.
“Thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name” (Genesis, 35:10). Prophet Jacob had 12 sons: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, Benjamin, Dan, Nephtali, Gad and Asher (Genesis, 35:23-26). They became the founders of 12 tribes of Israel, who are called Bani Israel (sons of Israel) or the ‘chosen sons of God’. They spread rapidly in Egypt, Syria, Palestine and other parts. But when cruel kings, including Nebuchadnezzar (597 BC) invaded, killed and enslaved them, only two tribes remained in Palestine and other ten were forced to migrate from Palestine. Some settled in Afghanistan, others in Balakh, Bukhara and Tibet and most of them reached North India through Central Asia and settled in Kashmir.
According to Pandit Hargopal Koul’s ‘Guldasta-I-Kashmir’, Kashmiri Pandits are the highest class of Aryans. Pandit Ram Chand Kak, former prime minister of Jammu and Kashmir during Maharaja Hari Singh’s rule, ‘Moses is a very common name in Kashmir…. There are many castes and tribes among Muslims and Hindus, which are mentioned in the Bible. Their ways and habits, features, shapes, morals, and character resemble those of Israelis. At Bijbehara near Anantnag town, there is a stone called ‘ka ka pal’ (ka in Kashmiri means eleven) resembling eleven tribes of Israel. Such a stone is also at Baramulla.
Civil servant turned writer -Kashmiriologist, Pervez Dewan, in his latest book, comments: “There can be no doubt that Jews used to visit ancient pre-Islamic Kashmir at the rate of one or two visitors a year. They were particularly honoured guests. This explains their stamp on some aspects of Kashmiri life. Some of them must have settled in Kashmir and accepted Hinduism (and later Islam). That explains why some Kashmiris have the ‘prominent noses’ that have intrigued European travellers so much.” His study also highlights Hebrew words in the Kashmiri language and makes a pointed reference some Jewish customs, food habits and beliefs found in Kashmir.
On the specific question - about the visit of Lord Jesus and Prophet Moses, Dewan banks on the manuscripts of the Bhavishya Maha Puran, Mullah Nadiri’s Tareekh-e-Kashmir and an ancient Buddhist manuscript in the Hemis caves in Ladakh. “If these documents have not been tampered with, then there can be no doubt but that Lord Jesus had lived for at least a while in Kashmir and Ladakh,” he concludes.
According to St Mark, there are discrepancies in the Gospels about the hour when Jesus was crucified. “Jesus did not die on the cross, as is the popular belief, but in fact he had fainted. The evidence which points to this are the Gospels, all of which stated that Jesus was taken down from the cross at the 9th hour, for the other day was Sabbath day. In those days, bodies could not remain on the cross on Sabbath.”
The historians of those days are a witness to the fact that no one died on the cross within such a short time, but normally were left to suffer for many days”, says Aziz.” When Jesus was taken down from the cross, he was actually dead faint, and people thought he was dead. “What happened afterwards is simple…..he was taken to a cave-like structure where he was rubbed with Marham Isa, an ointment to heal wounds, which is still in use. When he recovered, some three days later, he was disguised as a gardener (the same gardener Mary saw) as his friends were afraid that Pilate would see him and realize that he was really alive.
Jesus did escape from his enemies and he was eventually given shelter at another place, of which a complete description is given. Kashmir is the only place which fits in that description. According to the Quran, “there he lived, carried on his preachings and died.” A group of German scientists had carried out investigations regarding the shroud of Christ. The outcome of the research has shown that 2000 year old shroud of Christ has been found in the Italian town of Turin. They made their discovery known to the Pope then, but he reportedly said nothing.
Thomas was the twin brother of Christ (Dictionary of Bible by Hastings, Vol IV, 753, also John 20:24). Thomas in Hebrew means twin. This very person, whose name in Ikmal al-Din, Arabic history, written some 1000 years after, appears as Babad (which also means a twin) buried Christ after his natural death.
Avatar Meher Baba too asserts in his discourses that Jesus had visited to Kashmir valley and that after the crucifixion the body of Jesus was brought to Kashmir for burial.
Kashmir’s first written historical work ‘The Rajatarangini’ has also referred unambiguously to a Christ-like seer who was crucified by a Herod-like king and who lived in and ruled over Kashmir, possibly in the 1st century AD. In any case, there’s an enormous amount of circumstantial evidence that indicates that Jesus and Moses might have come to Kashmir.
- Syndicate Features -
Unquote
The viewers/readers should form their own opinion and accept truth when satisfied.
Thanks
paarsurrey
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
Why and what for; So many wrappings on Jesus?
My Christian friend gavmbree Says:
“3. How did Jesus unwrap himself in the tomb, push the rock away, and then fight the guards outside of the tomb?”
Paarsurrey Says:
Hi
Kindly let the wrappings of Jesus tell the story. The question to start with is; why Jesus was wrapped into in the first place? The wrappings speak that the persons who wrapped him were sure that Jesus had not died on the Cross. A dead body needs no wrappings whatsoever.The body of a dead person is covered with a shroud that is the Jewish, Christian and Muslim tradition I think. The dead body is given a bath or washed and is wrapped into a shroud/s.The final funeral ceremony is held, and it is placed in the grave.
Please quote from some Jewish, Christian and Muslim sources if I am wrong.
1. When and where Jesus was given a bath or his body was washed.
2. Did the disciples, who had fled away from the scene of crucifixion, were informed of the funeral ceremony? If not, why not?
3. Who lead the funeral prayer?
4. Was funeral ceremony held in Jewish tradition or Christian tradition? Christian tradition was invented later by Paul or his church unauthorized. Jesus had given no such tradition.
If those who were trusted with the body of Jesus did not participate or arrange the above; and we find no such recorded account in the four gospels, it is sure those who looked after his body knew that Jesus was not dead and hence they did not do it.
The injured body always needs wrappings after application of the ointments or medicines.
I think the rest is very clear. Those who wrapped Jesus; they are the ones or their helping friends who are supposed to unwrap him. If they could put him in a tomb and placed a stone, they could help Jesus to push the stone away, un-wrap him and let him go.
This is very reasonable. I think you agree with me.
I love Jesus and Muhammad.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
“3. How did Jesus unwrap himself in the tomb, push the rock away, and then fight the guards outside of the tomb?”
Paarsurrey Says:
Hi
Kindly let the wrappings of Jesus tell the story. The question to start with is; why Jesus was wrapped into in the first place? The wrappings speak that the persons who wrapped him were sure that Jesus had not died on the Cross. A dead body needs no wrappings whatsoever.The body of a dead person is covered with a shroud that is the Jewish, Christian and Muslim tradition I think. The dead body is given a bath or washed and is wrapped into a shroud/s.The final funeral ceremony is held, and it is placed in the grave.
Please quote from some Jewish, Christian and Muslim sources if I am wrong.
1. When and where Jesus was given a bath or his body was washed.
2. Did the disciples, who had fled away from the scene of crucifixion, were informed of the funeral ceremony? If not, why not?
3. Who lead the funeral prayer?
4. Was funeral ceremony held in Jewish tradition or Christian tradition? Christian tradition was invented later by Paul or his church unauthorized. Jesus had given no such tradition.
If those who were trusted with the body of Jesus did not participate or arrange the above; and we find no such recorded account in the four gospels, it is sure those who looked after his body knew that Jesus was not dead and hence they did not do it.
The injured body always needs wrappings after application of the ointments or medicines.
I think the rest is very clear. Those who wrapped Jesus; they are the ones or their helping friends who are supposed to unwrap him. If they could put him in a tomb and placed a stone, they could help Jesus to push the stone away, un-wrap him and let him go.
This is very reasonable. I think you agree with me.
I love Jesus and Muhammad.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
This may interest you
Hi
This may interest you.
Jesus did not die on Cross. Please don’t mind. In my opinion he survived death on Cross, as he promised to show sign of Jonah. And Jonah entered the belly of fish alive, remained alive in the belly of the fish and came out alive from the belly of the fish. Similarly Jesus entered the tomb where he was laid after he was delivered from the Cross, in a precarious condition but nevertheless alive. Jesus remained alive in the tomb and came out of it alive. Since he never died on the Cross, there is no question of his resurrection from the dead. This has been proved by the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 from several arguments from the Quran, NTBible and the medical and the history.
Second Coming has already taken place in the form of the PromisedMessiah1835-1908 as was prophesised in the scriptures
Kindly visit my blogsite for your comments and/or discussions on it if you like. Differing opinions are also welcome.
I love Jesus, Mary and Muhammad.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
This may interest you.
Jesus did not die on Cross. Please don’t mind. In my opinion he survived death on Cross, as he promised to show sign of Jonah. And Jonah entered the belly of fish alive, remained alive in the belly of the fish and came out alive from the belly of the fish. Similarly Jesus entered the tomb where he was laid after he was delivered from the Cross, in a precarious condition but nevertheless alive. Jesus remained alive in the tomb and came out of it alive. Since he never died on the Cross, there is no question of his resurrection from the dead. This has been proved by the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 from several arguments from the Quran, NTBible and the medical and the history.
Second Coming has already taken place in the form of the PromisedMessiah1835-1908 as was prophesised in the scriptures
Kindly visit my blogsite for your comments and/or discussions on it if you like. Differing opinions are also welcome.
I love Jesus, Mary and Muhammad.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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